Mary Question from Liturgy of Hours prayer book

[asteroid]

Apologies if this gets duplicated - it didn’t seem to go through last time. If it is there twice please answer on the other thread, I’ll see if it’s possible to delete this one or get it deleted.

In the last couple of days I’ve spotted something in the daily prayer book and want to ask someone about it - and the next RCIA session won’t be until January 11th since so many people are away and I can’t wait!

In a hymn from the prayer book we read/sing the following:

To Mary, dearest Mother, with fervent hearts we pray:
Grant that your tender infant will cast our sins away.

Now, I’ve been protestant for years so I may be reading this totally wrong and with protestant eyes and preconceptions.

Is it really in the power of Mary to grant whether or not Jesus will cast our sins away? If she doesn’t grant this, would Jesus not cast our sins away? Does he need permission from his mother to cast our sins away? If it really is in Mary’s sphere of power and authority to grant that Jesus will do this then is a prayer like this essential, or would she grant such a thing anyway.

I need clarification. I also need to read the Scott Hahn book on Mary that arrived her just before Christmas!

Blessings

Asteroid

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

asteroid:

Apologies if this gets duplicated - it didn’t seem to go through last time. If it is there twice please answer on the other thread, I’ll see if it’s possible to delete this one or get it deleted.

In the last couple of days I’ve spotted something in the daily prayer book and want to ask someone about it - and the next RCIA session won’t be until January 11th since so many people are away and I can’t wait!

In a hymn from the prayer book we read/sing the following:

To Mary, dearest Mother, with fervent hearts we pray:
Grant that your tender infant will cast our sins away.

Now, I’ve been protestant for years so I may be reading this totally wrong and with protestant eyes and preconceptions.

Is it really in the power of Mary to grant whether or not Jesus will cast our sins away? If she doesn’t grant this, would Jesus not cast our sins away? Does he need permission from his mother to cast our sins away? If it really is in Mary’s sphere of power and authority to grant that Jesus will do this then is a prayer like this essential, or would she grant such a thing anyway.

I need clarification. I also need to read the Scott Hahn book on Mary that arrived her just before Christmas!

Blessings

Asteroid

Mary can’t stop Christ from granting something. Her will is perfectly united to His. She does interceed on our part to ask that forgiveness be applied. All forgiveness has already been obtained for all sins by Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross. It just needs to be asked for and applied.

 

[Hesychios]

Could you specify which Liturgy of the hours book included that prayer? Does it have an Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat?

I don’t recall ever seeing that phrase.

But to answer your question, no. Mary has no such power according to Catholic theology, this is flowery language, poetic “license” as it were. Grant may be an older expression no longer adviseable or appropriate today. She can pray for you, she can ask for you.

Mary’s only power is to ask or suggest, and there are no guarantees, she cannot tell God what to do in the sense of ordering Him or fobidding Him. We like to include Mary in the process because we are so fond of her and experience has shown us that more often than not her prayers seem to help, but like the rest of us she as a creature has nothing she wasn’t given by God, including the ability to ask on our behalf.

We do believe that her prayer is more likely to get a favorable response at those instances where we are less deserving. It is one of the ways the Mercy of God (loving-kindness tempering God’s absolute justice) becomes evident to us, but not the only way.

 

[asteroid]

Many thanks for your replies and for the clarification.

The book btw is Daily Prayer from the Divine Office (The Liturgy of the Hours) as renewed by the decree of Vatican II, as approved for us in the UK, Australia and New Zealand. The imprimatur is from the Archbishop of Dublin. There isn’t a nihil obstat in it, but since it was confirmed by decrees of the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship I suppose that is wouldn’t need such a thing.

The quote given was actually from the set of hymns at the rear of the book and apparently dates from the 15th century. After checking dictionaries I can’t see a “sound” meaning for “grant” in this context so maybe I’ll just have to ignore the hymn and stick to the main part of the book.

I’m trying not to let Mariology keep me away from catholicism. Sometimes catholics haven’t helped me here. For example, a few years back at an ecumenical service for advent the local catholic priest preached. (not the priest here, the one where we lived before). He ended up encouraging us all, from various churches, to worship Mary. And worship was the word he used, several times.

You have to read that catholics don’t worship Mary many times before you can get over having a priest tell you to worship Mary. But I’m trying hard. And trying hard to see that all Mariology is really Christocentric and that while it may honour her, it really honours her son more.

Blessings

Asteroid

 

[mtr01]

asteroid:

I’m trying not to let Mariology keep me away from catholicism. Sometimes catholics haven’t helped me here. For example, a few years back at an ecumenical service for advent the local catholic priest preached. (not the priest here, the one where we lived before). He ended up encouraging us all, from various churches, to worship Mary. And worship was the word he used, several times.

You have to read that catholics don’t worship Mary many times before you can get over having a priest tell you to worship Mary. But I’m trying hard. And trying hard to see that all Mariology is really Christocentric and that while it may honour her, it really honours her son more.

Blessings

Asteroid

Not to hijack this thread, but I just wanted to point out that the priest you mention is technically correct that Catholics do “worship” Mary in the traditional sense of the word. Now before anyone have a heart attack, let me explain…

The word “worship” traditionally has meant “worthiness” or “honor” (think of someone from Britain calling a judge “your Worship”) and only relatively recently has come to mean to honor due to God alone.

For Catholics, there are three forms of worship: *dulia, hyperdulia *and *latria. Latria *is adoration, the worship due to God alone (as most people would construe “worship” today). *Dulia *is the honor given to Saints (as distinct from latria), and *hyperdulia *is the honor due Mary, as the greatest of the Saints. All three of the above categories are considered worship in the traditional sense, however, only one (the highest) form of worship to given to God alone.

*Latria *is never given to Mary and the Saints, but we do “worship” them in the sense of honoring them. Unfortunately, most non-Catholics who aren’t familiar with this distinction are prone to accuse Catholics of giving to Mary the same honor we give to God (which we don’t).