Mary's Assumption and Death as Consequence of Sin

[dts]

I was listening to Catholic Answers the other day and Karl Keating was asked whether Mary died before being assumed into heaven. Karl explained that the church has not taken a position on this point, but that most theologians believe Mary died before being assumed.

The caller brought up the point that Mary could not have died if she was free from sin, because Scripture teaches that death is the “wages of sin.”

I never got a clear answer on this point and I am trying to work it out in my mind. If Mary was free from original sin, why would she die?

Christ was also free from original sin and he died. However, Scripture clearly teaches that he took on the sins of the world. That is not the case with Mary.

The only possible way I see out of this dilemma (assuming Mary did die) is to also view death as a grace to the extent that it reunites us with God. Obviously, Mary would have been reunited with Christ through her death and as he experienced death so did she. However, I am not totally convinced by this reasoning.

Does anyone have any solid insights to offer?

Does anybody know the answer on this one?

 

[metal1633]

dts:

I was listening to Catholic Answers the other day and Karl Keating was asked whether Mary died before being assumed into heaven. Karl explained that the church has not taken a position on this point, but that most theologians believe Mary died before being assumed.

The caller brought up the point that Mary could not have died if she was free from sin, because Scripture teaches that death is the “wages of sin.”

I never got a clear answer on this point and I am trying to work it out in my mind. If Mary was free from original sin, why would she die?

Christ was also free from original sin and he died. However, Scripture clearly teaches that he took on the sins of the world. That is not the case with Mary.

The only possible way I see out of this dilemma (assuming Mary did die) is to also view death as a grace to the extent that it reunites us with God. Obviously, Mary would have been reunited with Christ through her death and as he experienced death so did she. However, I am not totally convinced by this reasoning.

Does anyone have any solid insights to offer?

Does anybody know the answer on this one?

Read MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS by Pope Pius XII in which he defined the Dogma of the Assumption. He answers these questions. I quote…

Christ overcame sin and death by his own death, and one who through Baptism has been born again in a supernatural way has conquered sin and death through the same Christ. Yet, according to the general rule, God does not will to grant to the just the full effect of the victory over death until the end of time has come. And so it is that the bodies of even the just are corrupted after death, and only on the last day will they be joined, each to its own glorious soul.

Now God has willed that the Blessed Virgin Mary should be exempted from this general rule. She, by an entirely unique privilege, completely overcame sin by her Immaculate Conception, and as a result she was not subject to the law of remaining in the corruption of the grave, and she did not have to wait until the end of time for the redemption of her body.

It is and has been the constant Tradition of the Church that Mary suffered temporal death and was buried. But she was raised up and taken Body and Soul into Heaven. It is found in the liturgucal Prayers of nearly all the Anciecnt Churches used on the Feast of the Assumption. To quote the Sacramentary of Pope Adrain I…

Venerable to us, O Lord, is the festivity of this day on which the holy Mother of God suffered temporal death, but still could not be kept down by the bonds of death, who has begotten your Son our Lord incarnate from herself

And St John of Damascus…

It was fitting that she, who had kept her virginity intact in childbirth, should keep her own body free from all corruption even after death.

And St. Alphonsus writes…

Jesus did not wish to have the body of Mary corrupted after death, since it would have redounded to his own dishonor to have her virginal flesh, from which he himself had assumed flesh, reduced to dust

 

[Todd_Easton]

Here’s my take on it: Since, Mary was free from all the effects of Original Sin, she, like Jesus, would not have died of natural causes so, if she did experience death before her assumption into heaven, either she was murdered (an idea not supported in tradition, except maybe Luke 2:35), or her death was the result of a singular grace from God so she could be reunited with her beloved son in a timely manner instead of having to wait until the end of the world.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

dts:

I was listening to Catholic Answers the other day and Karl Keating was asked whether Mary died before being assumed into heaven. Karl explained that the church has not taken a position on this point, but that most theologians believe Mary died before being assumed.

The caller brought up the point that Mary could not have died if she was free from sin, because Scripture teaches that death is the “wages of sin.”

I never got a clear answer on this point and I am trying to work it out in my mind. If Mary was free from original sin, why would she die?

Christ was also free from original sin and he died. However, Scripture clearly teaches that he took on the sins of the world. That is not the case with Mary.

The only possible way I see out of this dilemma (assuming Mary did die) is to also view death as a grace to the extent that it reunites us with God. Obviously, Mary would have been reunited with Christ through her death and as he experienced death so did she. However, I am not totally convinced by this reasoning.

Does anyone have any solid insights to offer?

Does anybody know the answer on this one?

When the Scriptures quoted are understod properly, “The wages of sin is [Spiritual] death.” Condemnation to Hell for Eternity, or what is called the “second death”

Mary died a Physical death without the fear we as sinners experience. Did she need to die? No, of course not. Since physical death and decay is a result of Original Sin. Mary could have choosen not to die a physical death. However if you look beyond this. Maybe God had other plans. To show us the resurection of a mortal body and it’s Assumption into Heaven, reuniting with the soul.
The same thing we hope we will all experience at the end of time.

 

[metal1633]

Todd Easton:

Here’s my take on it: Since, Mary was free from all the effects of Original Sin

Where do you get that from? The Church does not teach that she was free of “all the effects of Original Sin”. Pope Pius XII, in his Apostolic Constitution defining “ex cathedra” the dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin, says that the only “Effect” of sin she was exempt from was “remaining in the corruption of the grave, and she did not have to wait until the end of time for the redemption of her body”

or her death was the result of a singular grace from God so she could be reunited with her beloved son in a timely manner instead of having to wait until the end of the world.

In no case would she have needed to wait until the end of the world. Her soul would have immediatly gone to Heaven in any case. The “Singular Grace” was that she her body did not remain in her tomb but was reunited with her soul and then she was body and soul taken to heaven. A Grace we will all experience when the Lord returns. Dont you know? WE are also free of Original Sin due to our Baptism. There is no reason we cannot remain in sinless Holiness for the rest of our lives just as she did. Thank the Lord for the Grace of Confession. The differance between she and the rest of us is that she has already been raised up while we, as a general rule, must wait.

 

[metal1633]

Br. Rich SFO:

When the Scriptures quoted are understod properly, “The wages of sin is [Spiritual] death.” Condemnation to Hell for Eternity, or what is called the “second death”

Mary died a Physical death without the fear we as sinners experience. Did she need to die? No, of course not. Since physical death and decay is a result of Original Sin. Mary could have choosen not to die a physical death.

Speculation at best, based on a false assumption (no pun intended). Pius XII stated that she was only exempt from “remaining in the corruption of the grave.”.

By her Immaculate Conception she did not gain a triumph OVER death but rather she gained a triumph OUT of death.

that the dead body of the Blessed Virgin Mary remained incorrupt, but that she gained a triumph out of death, her heavenly glorification after the example of her only begotten Son

 

[GAssisi]

Do not forget that death and corruptibility are not the same thing. Jesus and Mary died (or “fell asleep,” as Easterns are fond of saying), but their bodies were incorrupt. Many saints are incorruptible as well. (No, this does not mean that the saints were sinless).

Greg

 

[Matt16_18]

The question of whether Mary died or “fell asleep” (see the Dormition of Mary) is a question that is open for legitimate theological debate within the Catholic Church.

It is a dogma of the Church that Mary was never stained by sin. If Mary did die, her death would be related to her role as Coredemptrix, and not her sinfulness.

“Thus in her own suffering too, the Mother of the Redeemer participates in the redemptive mission of Jesus Christ.”

An Explanation of the Coredemptrix of Mary Title

 

[Todd_Easton]

metal1633:

Where do you get that from? The Church does not teach that she was free of “all the effects of Original Sin”.

The effects of Original Sin include the loss of sanctifying grace in our souls, concupiscence, and death. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

1. By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and
   justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human
   beings.
   417. Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by
   their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice;
   this deprivation is called “original sin”.
   418. As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers,
   subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined
   to sin (this inclination is called “concupiscence”).

Baptism heals some of the effects of Original Sin, including the establishment of sanctifying grace in our souls, but baptism does not remove concupiscence, suffering and death from our lives.

Regarding Mary and Original Sin, the Catechism says,
491. Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that
Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of
her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception
confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her
conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by
virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race,
preserved immune from all stain of original sin.
492. The “splendour of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is
“enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from
Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the
merits of her Son”. The Father blessed Mary more than any other
created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly
places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be
holy and blameless before him in love”.
493. The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the
All-Holy” (Panagia), and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as
though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature”. By
the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life
long. “Let it be done to me according to your word…”

Since Mary was “preserved immune from all stain of original sin”, it would seem that she was “immune” from its effects, including concupiscence and death. So if Mary experienced death, it would have been by a special grace of God, in order that she might be reunited with her beloved son in a timely manner instead of having to remain alive on earth until his second coming.

 

[metal1633]

Todd Easton:

Since Mary was “preserved immune from all stain of original sin”, it would seem that she was “immune” from its effects, including concupiscence and death.

Now “it would seem” your guessing. “It would seem” that Pope Pius XII disagrees with you in that he stated that she was only exempt from “remaining in the corruption of the grave.”

 

[Todd_Easton]

metal1633:

Now “it would seem” your guessing. “It would seem” that Pope Pius XII disagrees with you in that he stated that she was only exempt from “remaining in the corruption of the grave.”

I was taking the word “all” in the phrase “immune from all stain of Original Sin” to mean both physical and spiritual consequences of the Original Sin. However, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, I was mistaken and Mary’s immunity only applies to the spiritual consequences of Original Sin: newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

“The state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin, was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining to original sin, were excluded. **But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam – from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death.” **

I apologize for not researching this more thoroughly before posting my opinion.

 

[dts]

Todd Easton:

I was taking the word “all” in the phrase “immune from all stain of Original Sin” to mean both physical and spiritual consequences of the Original Sin. However, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, I was mistaken and Mary’s immunity only applies to the spiritual consequences of Original Sin: newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

“The state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin, was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining to original sin, were excluded. **But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam – from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death.” **

I apologize for not researching this more thoroughly before posting my opinion.

Thank you very much. This is a very wise and most helpful answer.

 

[Ace_H]

Todd Easton:

Here’s my take on it: Since, Mary was free from all the effects of Original Sin, she, like Jesus, would not have died of natural causes so, if she did experience death before her assumption into heaven, either she was murdered (an idea not supported in tradition, except maybe Luke 2:35), or her death was the result of a singular grace from God so she could be reunited with her beloved son in a timely manner instead of having to wait until the end of the world.

We often speak of deceased loved ones as “being in heaven” and use phrases like “they are looking down on us from heaven”. If this is true, then the end of the world (judgement day) is the moment of our death when we are united in heaven (HOPEFULLY) with Christ and the heavenly hosts.

If at the time of death we enter into ETERNITY, we are no longer bound by the limits of earth’s time. Why then can this not be considered the “second coming of Christ and judgement day” for the deceased? If all this is takning place in “ETERNITY”, then our time (here on earth) is irrelevant. Either that’s true or no one, as of yet, is in heaven except The Holy Trinity, Mary and the Angels since all other human beings must wait for the “second coming of Christ” (earthly, NON ETERNITY point of view…which obviously hasn’t happed for those of us still alive and here on earth) to be judged.

 

[JP_Marat]

Catholic Encyclopedia:

"The belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is founded on the apocryphal treatise De Obitu S. Dominae, bearing the name of St. John, which belongs however to the fourth or fifth century. It is also found in the book De Transitu Virginis, falsely ascribed to St. Melito of Sardis, and in a **spurious letter **attributed to St. Denis the Areopagite. …The sermons of St. Jerome and St. Augustine for this feast, however, are spurious. "

The Assumption of Mary into Heaven
by Father William G. Most

Evidence for the Assumption

“There had been a problem of how the Pope could define the Assumption. There seemed to be nothing in Scripture on it, and what things there were in the Tradition of the Fathers seemed to come not from an apostolic origin, but from some apocryphal stories that circulated chiefly beginning in the fourth century.”