Mary's Assumption: Referred to in Scripture

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Over in the Church of Christ site, I made this argument for the Assumption of Mary from Scripture…

In Reply #3, latisha also asked about Mary’s Assumption into Heaven, and whether THAT is in the Bible.

Actually, it is, in one verse, but to see it one has to understand Bible “types,” or symbols.

In the Bible, the basic symbolic significance of birds is “evil,” “the Devil,” “sin.” See Matthew 13:19.

However, Christ is “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin,” 2 Corinthians 5:21, in the sense that though perfect when He atoned for our sins to pay for them by taking upon Himself the punishment for our sins He ended-up being treated as though He were Sin, itself.

So, the Bible uses SIN symbols to foreshadow Christ. See Leviticus 14:1-9, where the bird killed symbolizes Christ in the form of Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin, and the bird upon whom the blood of the killed bird is splattered, before the splattered bird is released, is sin, itself, being driven-away by the sacrifice of Christ.

Because the Holy Spirit CONTINUES THE MISSION OF Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin, the Holy Spirit is ALSO symbolized with bird symbols. Matthew 3:16, a dove at Jesus’ baptism. Genesis 8:9, where the dove holding Noah’s hand as it came back into Noah’s ark is a picture of the Holy Spirit delivering the “right hand of God” to the Church at the time of the Annunciation. Exekiel 17:3-5, where the eagle grasping the uppermost branch of the cedar tree and planting it in a “fruitful field” is also the Holy Spirit delivering Christ to Mary’s womb at the time of the Annunciation.

In Job 39:30, baby eagles drinking the blood of chalal, the “pierced [one],” are “children of the Holy Spirit,” Catholics, drinking the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

In Luke 17:37, the eagles being gathered in the sky above the carcass are the saved near the body of Christ, the Eucharist, being assumed alive into Heaven on the Last Day.

Note well, there: FLYING EAGLES ARE FOLKS BEING ASSUMED INTO HEAVEN.

Now, look at Revelation 12:14. There the woman who was the mother of the child who was snatched up to the throne of God is given THE WINGS OF A GIGANTIC EAGLE, SO THAT SHE COULD FLY.

There it is: Mary’s assumption, because “flying eagles are folks being assumed into Heaven.”
 
Very interesting . . . I doubt that most protestants would buy it. Did you find this on your own?
 
Saint Athanasisu thought that REV 12:1-4 referred to Mary as already being in heaven bodily. How she got there?
THe Assumption of course. SO he thought anyway.
So he thought it was implied in the text.
Condisdering even protestants would agree he was a master exegete of scripture that’s the best I found. The rest is found in types and allusions it is far stronger than in tradition than it is in the Bible.
It’s not the first marian doctrine I would defend with a protestants as the scriptural references are very implicit.
 
Absalom!:
Very interesting . . . I doubt that most protestants would buy it. Did you find this on your own?
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Yes. And The Catholic Answer magazine published the analysis in an article by myself about two years ago.
 
Hi BibleReader,

I’m having trouble coming to grips with some of the statements in your post, and fail to see how
your argument proves the assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary into heaven.

First of all, I fail to see any reference to birds in Matthew 13:19, much less any justification for
your statement "In the Bible, the basic symbolic significance of birds is ‘evil,’ ‘the Devil,’ ‘sin.’ "
To be sure, Matthew 13:4 tells of fowls coming and devouring the sowers seed that fell by the
wayside, but this does NOT imply that birds are the basic symbol for evil, the Devil, or sin, any
more than the sun is a symbol of evil or sin, because it came up and scorched the seeds that
fell on stony places, causing these seeds to whither away, as in Matthew 13:6.

Certainly the bible uses some birds to connotate sin and evil, for example, the Vulture is used
to typify greed. But there are many types of birds mentioned in the bible, and they are just as
often used as symbols for good things. The dove, for example, is used as a symbol of peace,
purity, simplicity, rest, innocence, and love (but never as a symbol of evil). The Eagle is used as
a symbol of Christ and His Divine nature, and of regeneration by baptism. It is also used as an
emblem of St. John the Evangelist. The Pelican is used to symbolize the atonement and the
Redeemer. The Phoenix is a symbol of the Resurrection and of eternity. The Peacock is used,
in ancient art, to signify the Resurrection, because its flesh was thought to be incorruptible. The
Cock is used a symbol of vigilance, and also as an emblem of St. Peter. For more info on this,
see newadvent.org/cathen/02576b.htm

.Also, I cannot for the life of me me see how you can say that the Holy Spirit is symbolized
with bird symbols BECAUSE He continues the mission of Him-Who-did not-know- in-Who-
as-made-to-be-sin. Fact is, a bird (the dove in this case) is used to symbolize the Holy Spirit
simply because it was a common practice of the ancients to use birds and other common
things for Ecclesiastical symbolism and religious instruction - the use of a bird (the dove) to
symbolize the Holy Spirit was NOT/ is NOT any DIRECT CONSEQUENCE of a bird being
used in Leviticus 14:-9 to symbolize Him-Who-did not-know-in-Who-as-made-to-be-sin.

As for your interpretations of Matthew 3:16, Genesis 8:9, and Ezekiel 17:3-5, and Job 39:30,
I hardly find fault with them, but fail to see how they play any part in proving the assumption of
the Virgin Mary.

As for Luke 17:37, which reads "He [the Lord] said to them, ‘Wherever the body is, there
will the eagles be gathered together.’ " and lends on Matthew 24:28, which in turn reads “For
wheresoever a dead carcass is, there will the Eagles be gathered together,” you claim that the
eagles are actually the saved, being assumed alive into Heaven on the Last Day. And, on this I
tend to agree, insofar as I read these these verses to mean that the only way to continue is to
cleave to Christ - the only remedy against the furious rage of the world, is to be gathered and
joined to Christ, who will come with speed and his presence will be with a majesty to whom
all shall flock.

But, in Revelation 12:14, John speaks of the woman being given two wings of a great eagle,
so she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and
times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. I do not read this to say that she was
snatched up to the throne of God, for is the wilderness a symbol of heaven? If so, where
else in the bible do you find the wilderness used to symbolize heaven ( the third heaven ) ?
Everywhere in the bible I see the wilderness mention, it refers to the outskirts, a barren land,
and rough country, wherein are fiery serpents, scorpions, drought, and no water - hardly a land
of milk and honey! Remember, we must let the bible interprete itself - private interpretation is
a No No! Furthermore, if the woman was snatched up to the throne of God (no longer on the
earth), how could the serpent (Satan) have hoped to carry her away with the flood cast out of
his mouth? And, what kind help could the earth have provided her by opening its mouth to
swallow up the flood (as in Revelation 12:15-16) ?

Respectfully,
Frank
 
Hi, fcfahs. Here is my answer to your post, in three installments so that I can beat the program’s volume limit…

First of all, I fail to see any reference to birds in Matthew 13:19, much less any justification for
your statement "In the Bible, the basic symbolic significance of birds is ‘evil,’ ‘the Devil,’ ‘sin.’ "

Why do you need to see Jesus actually SAY the word “birds” here to see that He uses “birds” to symbolize the “evil one.” In Matthew 13:19, does He not equate the birds in Matthew 13:4 with “the evil one”?

To be sure, Matthew 13:4 tells of fowls coming and devouring the sowers seed that fell by the
wayside, but this does NOT imply that birds are the basic symbol for evil, the Devil, or sin, any
more than the sun is a symbol of evil or sin, because it came up and scorched the seeds that
fell on stony places, causing these seeds to whither away, as in Matthew 13:6.

In Scripture, “sun” appears to mean, “A testing presence of God.” Try it!

Certainly the bible uses some birds to connotate sin and evil, for example, the Vulture is used
to typify greed.

Interesting. Where?

But there are many types of birds mentioned in the bible, and they are just as
often used as symbols for good things. The dove, for example, is used as a symbol of peace,
purity, simplicity, rest, innocence, and love (but never as a symbol of evil).

The Bird Type mutates in Bible typology. Because (1) the basic Bird Type = “sin,” “evil,” “Devil,” etc., and because (2) Christ is frequently symbolized with sin types, because He is “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin,” 2 Corinthians 5:21, as at Numbers 21:9 (where Christ on the cross is symbolized by a serpent on a pole), in Leviticus 14:1-9 we see the killing of a bird followed by the splattering of its blood on a second bird, followed by the second bird’s release, to symbolize the chasing away of evil and sin with the blood of murdered Christ in the form of “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin.”
So, there, the Bird Type for “sin,” “evil” and such mutates from “sin” and such to “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin.”
The Bird Type mutates again, to represent the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is “He-Who-carries-on-the-mission-of-Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin.” So, the Holy Spirit is represented by a dove in all four gospels at Jesus’ baptism, and by an eagle in Job 39:30 and in Ezekiel 17.
**In Job 39:30 and in Jesus’ eschatological homily the mutated Bird Type for the Holy Spirit RE-mutates so that Christians, who are children of the Holy Spirit, are characterized as baby eagles – children of “He-Who-carries-on-the-mission-of-Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin.”

The Eagle is used as
a symbol of Christ and His Divine nature, and of regeneration by baptism.

Interesting. Where in Scripture?
 
It is also used as an emblem of St. John the Evangelist.

You are talking like one who believes he has mastered Bible typology, who has also never considered the possibility that Bible types comprise an ordered language, as opposed to a tossed salad of ideas.
Though the Church has traditionally used the four eagles to symbolize the four gospels, what in the Bible says that this is the meaning? What Magisterial pronouncement requires this belief?

The Pelican is used to symbolize the atonement and the Redeemer.

Where in Scripture, my friend?
Note well that I would not be averse to an interpretation of “pelican” as a reference to the Redeemer, because birds are used to symbolize Christ in the form of “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin.”

The Phoenix is a symbol of the Resurrection and of eternity. The Peacock is used,
in ancient art, to signify the Resurrection, because its flesh was thought to be incorruptible.

**Where in Scripture, my friend? I really couldn’t care less how it is used outside of Scripture. **
The Cock is used a symbol of vigilance, and also as an emblem of St. Peter.

Actually, when the cock crows after Peter’s sin, that’s the Devil celebrating.

.Also, I cannot for the life of me me see how you can say that the Holy Spirit is symbolized
with bird symbols BECAUSE He continues the mission of Him-Who-did not-know- in-Who-
as-made-to-be-sin. Fact is, a bird (the dove in this case) is used to symbolize the Holy Spirit
simply because it was a common practice of the ancients to use birds and other common
things for Ecclesiastical symbolism and religious instruction - the use of a bird (the dove) to
symbolize the Holy Spirit was NOT/ is NOT any DIRECT CONSEQUENCE of a bird being
used in Leviticus 14:-9 to symbolize Him-Who-did not-know-in-Who-as-made-to-be-sin.

Calm down. You’re not a Holy Spirit mind reader. If you take the time to actually study typology as a whole, you’ll see a few types which mutate as I describe.

As for your interpretations of Matthew 3:16, Genesis 8:9, and Ezekiel 17:3-5, and Job 39:30,
I hardly find fault with them, but fail to see how they play any part in proving the assumption of
the Virgin Mary.

The verses are part of the story of the mutation of the Bird Type. It explains why the Woman who gave birth to the boy who would rule with an iron rod was given the two wings of a giant eagle.
 
As for Luke 17:37, which reads "He [the Lord] said to them, ‘Wherever the body is, there
will the eagles be gathered together.’ " and lends on Matthew 24:28, which in turn reads “For
wheresoever a dead carcass is, there will the Eagles be gathered together,” you claim that the
eagles are actually the saved, being assumed alive into Heaven on the Last Day. And, on this I
tend to agree, insofar as I read these these verses to mean that the only way to continue is to
cleave to Christ - the only remedy against the furious rage of the world, is to be gathered and
joined to Christ, who will come with speed and his presence will be with a majesty to whom
all shall flock.

But, in Revelation 12:14, John speaks of the woman being given two wings of a great eagle,
so she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and
times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. I do not read this to say that she was
snatched up to the throne of God, for is the wilderness a symbol of heaven

Well, the “snatching” business refers to her son Christ. Though two wings of an eagle refers to being assumed into Heaven, much as the Luke 17:37 eagles were flying to Heaven, Mary did not leave altogether. She’s still here, appearing at Guadalupe, LaSalette, Fatima, and perhaps at Medjugore.
The “wilderness” is the Desert/Wasteland/Wilderness Type for the “World in Need of Salvation.” The “special place” for Mary is the Church which venerates her.
 
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BibleReader:
Well, the “snatching” business refers to her son Christ. Though two wings of an eagle refers to being assumed into Heaven, much as the Luke 17:37 eagles were flying to Heaven, Mary did not leave altogether. She’s still here, appearing at Guadalupe, LaSalette, Fatima, and perhaps at Medjugore.

The “wilderness” is the Desert/Wasteland/Wilderness Type for the “World in Need of Salvation.” The “special place” for Mary is the Church which venerates her.
Click to expand...
This is why most Fundamentalists will go to great lengths to **attempt **show that Rev 11:19-12:17 makes no references to Mary whatsoever. They claim that the “woman” is Israel.

Genesis 3:15 is shown fulfilled in Rev 12. Serpent - Dragon, Eve - Mary, Seed - Child/Jesus. Israel doesn’t fit into this formula.

Some bible translations (NAB & NRSV) use the word “vulture” instead of “eagle” in Luke 17:37.

Any comments?
 
Thank you Bible reader and Fcfahs,
Both of your informations are very usefull to me, actually I was looking Referrences for Assumption. If you have more referrence please inform.
Thanks.
 
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MarkAnthonyCozy:
Some bible translations (NAB & NRSV) use the word “vulture” instead of “eagle” in Luke 17:37.

Any comments?
Click to expand...
That looks like it is the consequence of non-communication between the writer of the chain reference notes in those Bibles and the translators of Luke (and Matthew 24).

The chain reference note writers realized that when Jesus said what He said, He was paraphrasing Job 39:30, where a parent eagle stands guard while a nest full of baby eagles drink the blood of “chalal,” the “pierced one” – the Holy Spirit watching over the Church, while Christians sup on the Eucharistic blood of Christ. As a result, the chain reference notes in the NAB (and NRSV, too?) connect the vulture verses to the Job 39:30 eagle verse.

The translators, on the other hand, translated the Greek aetos to read “vulture,” even though it almost always means “eagle,” because they decided to ignore any connection to Job 39:30, or were not aware of it, and mistakenly believed that Luke and Matthew were describing a scene of great devastation and death, instead of a scene of resurrection in the vicinity of the Eucharist.
 
Hi again BibleReader,

Thank you for your comprehensive reply to my post (#5), and allow me to be the first to admit that you certainly have conviction in your interpretation of the bible symbolism you’ve managed
to uncover.

As for my assertions about the symbolism associated with different kinds of birds, in scripture and christian tradition, you apparently failed to see and/or follow the link I provided in my post,
namely newadvent.org/cathen/02576b.htm - an article in the Catholic Encylopedia
which describes how specific birds (including the ones I mentioned) were used in symbolism.

Originally Posted by BibleReader:
Actually, when the cock crows after Peter’s sin, that’s the Devil celebrating.

Hmmm… Not to “steal your thunder” or dissuade your interpretation, but I wonder if the cock
would have crowed twice, even if Peter did not deny Christ. My guess is YES, because cocks
(roosters) are pretty good about crowing on time. Indeed, they were one of man’s best clocks.
Even a “Mother Goose” nursery rhyme says…

“Cocks crow in the morn to tell us to rise, and he who lies late will never be wise…” 🙂

Originally Posted by BibleReader:
The “wilderness” is the Desert/Wasteland/Wilderness Type for the “World in Need of Salvation.” The “special place” for Mary is the Church which venerates her.

This certainly sheds new light on my understanding of your interpretation of Revelation 12:14,
for I can now understand this verse (or your interpretation of it) to mean that Mary (in spirit)
was transported from heaven, via symbolic wings of an eagle, into the Church [her place,]
within the “World in Need of Salvation” [the wildernes,] where she would there be venerated [nourished] for a very long time from the face of the devil [the serpent] - and, for Mary to be
transported from heaven, she would have had to be there in the first place.

Very interesting analysis. You are, indeed, a real thinker.

Thanks again for your reply,

Frank
 
fcfahs,

After Peter denies Jesus THREE times, the cock crows TWICE.

Significant?

Elsewhere in this site I posted that “three” in Bible typology = “God’s will.” “Two” in Bible typology = “Church.”

Peter denies Jesus “THREE” times because “it is against GOD’S WILL to do so.” The cock crows “TWICE” because “the Devil has scored a victory over the CHURCH.”
 
Hi again BibleReader,

Originally posted by BibleReader:
After Peter denies Jesus THREE times, the cock crows TWICE.
Significant?

Not sure whether Mark’s phrase “before a cock crows twice” is “Significant” or simply meant
to convey the fact that Peter would deny Christ THREE times before daybreak, particularly in
view of Mathew 26:34,74-75, Luke 22:34,60-62, and John 13:38, which don’t mention that a
cock crowed twice - only that a cock crowed.

For a detailed analysis of this enigma, please see carm.org/diff/Matt26_33.htm.

Frank
 
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BibleReader:
That looks like it is the consequence of non-communication between the writer of the chain reference notes in those Bibles and the translators of Luke (and Matthew 24).

The chain reference note writers realized that when Jesus said what He said, He was paraphrasing Job 39:30, where a parent eagle stands guard while a nest full of baby eagles drink the blood of “chalal,” the “pierced one” – the Holy Spirit watching over the Church, while Christians sup on the Eucharistic blood of Christ. As a result, the chain reference notes in the NAB (and NRSV, too?) connect the vulture verses to the Job 39:30 eagle verse.

The translators, on the other hand, translated the Greek aetos to read “vulture,” even though it almost always means “eagle,” because they decided to ignore any connection to Job 39:30, or were not aware of it, and mistakenly believed that Luke and Matthew were describing a scene of great devastation and death, instead of a scene of resurrection in the vicinity of the Eucharist.
Click to expand...
I greatly appreciate you taking the time to share what you have attained with us. My understanding has been increased beyond a sense that the eagle, as well as the dove, can be a symbol of the Holy Spirit. You have presented it as something charitably defensible.

I have also believed that the eagle’s wings given to the “woman” in Rev 12:14 show that Mary was protected from sin.

As for the “wilderness;”

God’s chosen people wandered 40 years in the wilderness until they were ready to take possession of the promised land.

John the Baptist lived in the wilderness preaching the coming of the Savior and people went out to the wilderness to listen to his preaching and to be baptized.

Jesus went out to the wilderness to prepare himself for his mission, his battle and eventual triumph over Satan, and the establishment of his Church.

God works with much power in the wilderness, a place where each of us must go if we are to realize the fullness of God’s love, grace and power in our lives.

After reading this I see more clearly that when we go into the wilderness our Mother is already there praying for us.
 
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fcfahs:
Hi again BibleReader,

Originally posted by BibleReader:
After Peter denies Jesus THREE times, the cock crows TWICE.
Significant?

Not sure whether Mark’s phrase “before a cock crows twice” is “Significant” or simply meant
to convey the fact that Peter would deny Christ THREE times before daybreak, particularly in
view of Mathew 26:34,74-75, Luke 22:34,60-62, and John 13:38, which don’t mention that a
cock crowed twice - only that a cock crowed.

For a detailed analysis of this enigma, please see carm.org/diff/Matt26_33.htm.

Frank
Click to expand...
Hi, Frank.

Sometimes details in the Bible narratives not only differ but they contradict each other, because the inspired authors were “playing fast and loose with the facts” to teach us something different with an inserted typological detail.

So, we do not ignore the cock crowing “twice” in Mark because it is outnumbered 3 to 1 by the other gospels. Mark was merely explaining what the Devil was crowing about – a victory over “the Church.”
 
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BibleReader:
Hi, Frank.

Sometimes details in the Bible narratives not only differ but they contradict each other, because the inspired authors were “playing fast and loose with the facts” to teach us something different with an inserted typological detail.

So, we do not ignore the cock crowing “twice” in Mark because it is outnumbered 3 to 1 by the other gospels. Mark was merely explaining what the Devil was crowing about – a victory over “the Church.”
Click to expand...
How perceptive!
 
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