Mary's Entrance Into Mass

[reidtgang]

My wife (Non-Catholic) and I (back after twelve years) recently went to a Marion conference. Everything went well until at the closing mass the entrance procession included a statue of Mary on a platform hoisted up by four gentlemen. The whole weekend we were told how Catholics don’t worship Mary, statues, and that at the mass all eyes are on God. There was already enough art at the front of the conference center to be a distraction and now here comes another held high as the center of attention. My wife and I pray the rosary daily and venerate Mary highly, but Mass is Mass and action speak louder than words. After leaving we made the long journey home trying to figure out what just happened.

Is this allowed?

 

[Fidelis]

First of all, since the event you were at was a MARIAN conference, why is surprising that they would include an image of Mary in the procession?

Second, how does the inclusion of Mary’s image in this procession imply worship of her or of statues? Were the chidren of Israel wrong to process with the ark of the covenant which included images of cherubim fashioned from gold? We also have other objects that we include prominently in processions as well-- the lectionary as the Word of God held aloft, candles, a swinging censor with incense–does that mean we worship them or we are taking attention off of God? No it doesn’t, because these things are meant to help bring us closer to God. This goes for our devotion to Mary. She was instrumental in bringing God to us in the person of Jesus Christ, and any veneration we give her is because of that and because she continues to do so through her motherly intercession.

 

[CatholicNerd]

reidtgang:

My wife (Non-Catholic) and I (back after twelve years) recently went to a Marion conference. Everything went well until at the closing mass the entrance procession included a statue of Mary on a platform hoisted up by four gentlemen. The whole weekend we were told how Catholics don’t worship Mary, statues, and that at the mass all eyes are on God. There was already enough art at the front of the conference center to be a distraction and now here comes another held high as the center of attention. My wife and I pray the rosary daily and venerate Mary highly, but Mass is Mass and action speak louder than words. After leaving we made the long journey home trying to figure out what just happened.

Is this allowed?

While I do believe that it’s permitted, I think that it was a very tacky thing to do… yet at the same time, the great saints have said (and I believe it) that we cannot honor Mary enough. Quite honestly, I feel that the West no longer honors the Theotokos enough. You’ll occaisionally pray a Hail Mary or Hail Holy Queen and march a statue around singing Marian hymns, which is all good, but where are the ancient and venerable litanies, where is the Akathist (which was prayed in the west before and even after the Great Schism).

Anyway, our Holy Father explained in Ecclesia De Eucharistia just how intimately united Mary is to her Son, and how that unity extends to the Eucharist. It is fitting to honor Mary at Mass, since she is the spring through which all graces flow! You can access that Encyclical here adoremus.org/EcclesiaDeEucharistia.html#anchor570825 and it should jump down to the chapter that brings Mary into the picture. It’s an incredible work, and has dispelled any doubts I might have had about “bringing Mary into Mass.”

As far as that statue goes, while it was tacky, and as long as they didn’t interrupt the Mass to do something with it, it’s ok.

 

[mrS4ntA]

I agree. Just as Maryw as intimately united with Christ’s sufferings on the foot of the Cross, Mary’s role in the Mass – re-presentation of that suffering – is undeniable. St Louis suggests, too, that we receive the Body of Christ with Mary, “Mother, behold thy Son.”

 

[reidtgang]

–does that mean we worship them or we are taking attention off of God? No it doesn’t, because these things are meant to help bring us closer to God. This goes for our devotion to Mary.

I agree, however we were told throughout the weekend that do any devotions related towards others during mass was not to be done.

So to you my question still remains if giving out devotions to others during mass is wrong why is this not.

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

Reid:

By your logic, the Church needs to stop having Masses in honor of all the saints and angels.

Maybe we should stop reading from the Old Testament at Mass, since all those stories about David, Abraham, Isaac et al. distract us from God.

And we should stop reading from the Acts of the Apostles. That distracts us from Jesus, too.



And it says a lot to me that a poster would call a Marian procession “tacky.” This is an extremely venerable custom, with full historical precedent. It in no way constitutes an abuse, much less a tacky one.

 

[reidtgang]

By your logic, the Church needs to stop having Masses in honor of all the saints and angels.

Maybe we should stop reading from the Old Testament at Mass, since all those stories about David, Abraham, Isaac et al. distract us from God.

Good Point

Were the chidren of Israel wrong to process with the ark of the covenant

Good Point

 

[CatholicNerd]

DominvsVobiscvm:

Reid:

By your logic, the Church needs to stop having Masses in honor of all the saints and angels.

Maybe we should stop reading from the Old Testament at Mass, since all those stories about David, Abraham, Isaac et al. distract us from God.

And we should stop reading from the Acts of the Apostles. That distracts us from Jesus, too.



And it says a lot to me that a poster would call a Marian procession “tacky.” This is an extremely venerable custom, with full historical precedent. It in no way constitutes an abuse, much less a tacky one.

Hey now, that’s my personal opinion. And I didn’t say that a Marian procession was tacky. I just said (or meant to say if I wasn’t explicit enough) that a Marian procession with a giant statue is tacky. This, I believe, is an opinion that I am permitted to hold. I’m not really a plaster statue kinda guy… I’d rather venerate an icon of Our Lady. I didn’t mean to give anyone the impression that I’m against the ancient custom of Marian processions or against Marian devotion in the first place! I’m probably one of the biggest advocates for restoring Marian devotion before/during/after Masses in my diocese… :angel1:

 

[reidtgang]

Hey now, that’s my personal opinion. And I didn’t say that a Marian procession was tacky. I just said (or meant to say if I wasn’t explicit enough) that a Marian procession with a giant statue is tacky. This, I believe, is an opinion that I am permitted to hold. I’m not really a plaster statue kinda guy… I’d rather venerate an icon of Our Lady. I didn’t mean to give anyone the impression that I’m against the ancient custom of Marian processions or against Marian devotion in the first place! I’m probably one of the biggest advocates for restoring Marian devotion before/during/after Masses in my diocese… :angel1:

I understood clearly

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

I just said (or meant to say if I wasn’t explicit enough) that a Marian procession with a giant statue is tacky. This, I believe, is an opinion that I am permitted to hold. I’m not really a plaster statue kinda guy

Must be an American thing.

Dumb cracker . . .

 

[Hesychios]

mrS4ntA:

I agree. Just as Maryw as intimately united with Christ’s sufferings on the foot of the Cross, Mary’s role in the Mass – re-presentation of that suffering – is undeniable. St Louis suggests, too, that we receive the Body of Christ with Mary, “Mother, behold thy Son.”

In the Byzantine church, Marian hymns are a big no-no at communion time. Not to be done, it sends the wrong message.

Before and after liturgy we lay it on with Marian hymns, and we sing her praises during the liturgy, but at communion time - no way!

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

In the Byzantine church, Marian hymns are a big no-no at communion time. Not to be done, it sends the wrong message.

In general, this holds true for us Latins too.

An exception would be those Marian hymns which are Eucharistic in nature. For example, those that compare the incarnation of Our Lord in the womb of the virgin with the “incarnation” in the Eucharist.

Are you sure this is actually forbidden in Byzantine Churches? The mystical character of the Incarnation/Eucharist parallels would seem to make it a most fitting subject for a Byzantine liturgy.