Mary's knowledge of God's love - an abstraction?

[jkiernan56]

I sent an email to one of the Apologists asking for clarification on the following thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=295088

Some of the response given states “God could have cleansed us from original sin by simply willing it. But we would have been left knowing of His infinite love for us as an abstraction.”

Since I haven’t heard back from the Apologist, that is the reason I am asking the question here:

We know Mary was conceived without original sin because of the PERSON she was to give birth to. **Because of her Immaculate Conception, was Mary’s knowledge of God’s love also an abstraction? ** Personally I don’t think so. If that is true for Mary, why should it be not be true for us as well?

Your thoughts?

 

[baltobetsy]

Mary was saved from sin by the death of Jesus, just as the rest of us are. It just happened earlier for her - at her conception. God’s love for her is all the more real for her because she was present at the saving death of the Lord, her Son.

Betsy

 

[jkiernan56]

Mary was saved from sin by the death of Jesus, just as the rest of us are. It just happened earlier for her - at her conception. God’s love for her is all the more real for her because she was present at the saving death of the Lord, her Son.

Betsy

I agree with you that I think Mary knew God’s love in a very personal way. But in this thread I am trying to raise a question to the response given by an Apologist.

The following question was asked to the Apologist:

"I need to answer this question for someone,please help. If Mary came as the 2nd Eve and was cleansed of original sin why aren’t we free of original sin?"

The Apologist replied:

"God could have cleansed us from original sin by simply willing it. But we would have been left knowing of His infinite love for us as an abstraction."

The answer the Apologist gave DOES NOT make sense. Why would it be TRUE for us that God’s love would be an abstraction had God saved us from original sin like Mary? Mary’s knowledge of God’s love was not an abstraction - therefore why would it be for us?

To view the entire thread, click on the link:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=295088

 

[baltobetsy]

When the apologist said “God could have cleansed us,” I think he meant the whole human race including Mary. He’s making the distinction between simply willing our salvation and sending Jesus to suffer and die, not a distinction between how Mary was saved and how we are.

Betsy

 

[jkiernan56]

When the apologist said “God could have cleansed us,” I think he meant the whole human race including Mary. He’s making the distinction between simply willing our salvation and sending Jesus to suffer and die, not a distinction between how Mary was saved and how we are.

Betsy

The Apologist indicates in their answer that had we (you and I) been conceived immaculate from sin like Mary was, that our knowledge of God’s love would have been an abstraction. I am asking the question - WHY? If it was NOT an abstraction for Mary, why would it be an abstraction for us?

 

[baltobetsy]

The Apologist indicates in their answer that had we (you and I) been conceived immaculate from sin like Mary was, that our knowledge of God’s love would have been an abstraction. I am asking the question - WHY? If it was NOT an abstraction for Mary, why would it be an abstraction for us?

No, he did not say that at all. Please reread the answer. He indicated that it would be an abstraction for us if God simply willed our salvation. Mary was not simply willed by God to be conceived immaculate - she, too, was saved by the death of Jesus, at which she was present and where she suffered greatly herself. Remember that God acts outside of time, and, even though the death of Our Lord had not happened in human history yet, its effects were available to Our Lady at any time chosen by God, which was at her conception.

Betsy

 

[jkiernan56]

No, he did not say that at all. Please reread the answer. He indicated that it would be an abstraction for us if God simply willed our salvation. Mary was not simply willed by God to be conceived immaculate - she, too, was saved by the death of Jesus, at which she was present and where she suffered greatly herself. Remember that God acts outside of time, and, even though the death of Our Lord had not happened in human history yet, its effects were available to Our Lady at any time chosen by God, which was at her conception.

Betsy

You raise a VERY good point. Mary’s Immaculate Conception was a grace afforded her by the merits of Christ’s death on the cross. If you and I had also been conceived like Mary, would there have been a need for a Savior? How then would Mary have been saved by Christ at her conception? It wouldn’t have been necessary. Mary and us could not be saved from sin unless we needed a Savior. Thank you very much for helping me to see this.

 

[baltobetsy]

We need a savior. Mary needed a savior. If we had been conceived like Mary, without the stain of original sin, it would have been in the same manner that she was - that the merits of Christ’s saving death were applied to us at that time instead of at our baptism, after our having been wounded by original sin. Then, we would, like Mary, not be subject to concupiscence, an aftereffect of original sin. But it would still have been by the merits of Jesus Christ that we were saved. Adam & Eve’s sin made it necessary for every human being (including Mary) born after them to be saved. God applied the merits of Jesus to Mary at her conception in order that she, as Mother of God, would be a worthy vessel to bring Jesus into the world.

Betsy