Mass on saturday

[centurionguard]

My parish has a Mass on Saturday afternoon at 4:30pm that usually last almost an hour except on the hottest days of summer when the priest may make the Mass a little shorter by limiting the length of the homily or giving a short prayer reflection on the insight of the Gospel.

I always thought it fulfilled the Sunday Obligation. I always go to the Sunday 11:00 am Mass myself.

Our Archbishop set a memorandum decades ago declaring no Requiem Masses or Marriages after 12 noon on Saturday.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Today,Saturday, I have a Confirmation Mass for my nephew (at 2 PM). It may be considered as a mass of holly day of obligation or I should go tomorrow too?
All my kids are complaining since I suggested that.

Obviously, it is too late to comment on this particular situation. It is worth pointing out, though, for future reference, that 2 p.m. is too early to fulfil the obligation. My apologies to the kids

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It boils down to the intent of the Priest (celebrant). One clue to watch for is rather the Sunday readings are used or not.

Any Mass after 4pm on Saturday fulfills the obligation regardless of what readings are used.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

It boils down to the intent of the Priest (celebrant).

No, it does not. On that basis a priest could celebrate Mass at 12 noon on Wednesday but if he intends it to be Sunday Mass it is. That is not correct. It “boils down to” the time when the Mass is celebrated.

One clue to watch for is rather the Sunday readings are used or not.

Neither the propers of the Mass nor the readings determine whether a Mass fulfils the Sunday obligation. It is simply the time when it is celebrated.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I said it was a clue.

No, it is not. Any Mass celebrated on Saturday evening or any time on Sunday fulfils the Sunday obligation. It does not matter what Mass is celebrated.

It boils sown to the intent of the Priest (Celebrant).

No, it does not. In fact that is a very vague statement.

Quoting Canon law is of no benefit in this matter.

Canon Law is helpful because it tells us when we can fulfil the Sunday obligation.

 

[ProVobis]

No, it does not. On that basis a priest could celebrate Mass at 12 noon on Wednesday but if he intends it to be Sunday Mass it is. That is not correct.

But in a way isn’t this what the U.S. bishops did with Ascension Thursday Sunday?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

But in a way isn’t this what the U.S. bishops did with Ascension Thursday Sunday?

The US bishops were not alone in transferring the day on which we celebrate the Ascension of the Lord. I do not see how you draw a correlation. We celebrate every Sunday as we remember it as the day of the Lord’s Ressurection. Each Sunday is a mini Easter. Consequently, you cannot celebrate Sunday on Wednesday. You can, of course, begin its celebration on the evening of the previous day: Saturday.

I believe we celebrate our Lord’s ascension into heaven rather than Ascension Thursday. I don’t see how it is important that the Ascension is celebrated on a particular day. We could digress into a discussion about many holy days. For example, was our Lord born on 25th December?

 

[Alindawyl]

But in a way isn’t this what the U.S. bishops did with Ascension Thursday Sunday?

No, not at all.

Canon 1246 gives explicit permission for a local bishop’s conference to either suppress some of the universal Holy Days OR transfer their observation to a Sunday, provided permission is granted by the Holy See. The USCCB requested permission to transfer the feast of the Ascension to the next Sunday. Permission was granted, and in 1999 the USCCB permitted each ecclesial province in the country to decide whether the feast of the Ascension would be celebrated on the traditional 40 days after Easter or the next Sunday.

 

[ProVobis]

You can, of course, begin its celebration on the evening of the previous day: Saturday.

But can’t the bishops define what “vespere” means in their own vernacular? They can translate it to “afternoon and evening” can’t they?

FWIW, in rural American South, evening has been thought of as beginning about noon.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evening

 

[Matthew_Holford]

But can’t the bishops define what “vespere” means in their own vernacular? They can translate it to “afternoon and evening” can’t they?

Unfortunately, I do not know Latin. I, therefore, do not know what vespere means. If vespere was used to mean afternoon and evening then yes it would be valid for the bishops to translate it to mean afternoon and evening. If the Latin word vespere was confined to meaning evening the bishops should not translate vespere to incorporate afternoon. That would mean they had licence to translate any word as they see fit.

Do you believe that a Mass celebrated on Saturday afternoon at 14:00 hours can count as filling the Sunday obligation?

I am the first to admit that there is some scope for interpretation when it comes to deciding the earliest hour for a Saturday evening Mass to count as satisfying the Sunday obligation. From what I have read many times on this forum in seems to be ingrained in the minds of many Catholics in North America that 16:00 hours is the earliest time. In the UK we don’t appear to have a preset time in our minds.

Have the bishops’ conferences in North America ever prescribed a time that has to be observed for this purpose? I know this has not been done in England and Wales.

Is it a decision that can be made by each diocesan bishop or does it have to be a decision take at the level of the episcopal conference?