Mass via Telepresence? (Speculation on the future)

[brent68]

This post has an immediate question as well as some speculative questions.

My local parish, like many, has a “problem”, that at Christmas and Easter Mass, there is not enough room for all the people to gather. So, as a solution to the problem, we are using the large meeting area in the church basement as overflow seating. We have a video camera and projector downstairs so that those downstairs can see and hear the Mass and can participate, and Communion is distributed downstairs as well.

First of all, is there any problems with doing so, and does this meet the requirements of participating in Mass for those in the basement area? My thoughts are that even though they are not physically in the same room, they are fully participating, and are partaking in Communion as well.

So, assuming that this is okay, what if the overflow area is in a separate building, such as the school gym/parish activities center?

Now for the speculative.

To my knowledge we still have a shortage of priests, one that is speculated to get worse as time goes on. There are priests which oversee two or more parishes in some areas.

So, based on my parish’s solution to the Christmas/Easter problem, I was thinking of ways to address the priest shortage.

With the amazing advances in real time telecommunications (video/audio), could we have multiple groups of parishoners, each in a different church. One church would have the priest celebrating Mass, and the others would have a live feed. They of course would be participating by praying/singing. At Communion time, designated lay people (or a deacon) could distribute Communion.

Would this be a viable alternative (assuming no better alternatives were available)?

 

[Gorgias]

First of all, is there any problems with doing so, and does this meet the requirements of participating in Mass for those in the basement area? My thoughts are that even though they are not physically in the same room, they are fully participating, and are partaking in Communion as well.

No problems with this approach. I would disagree with your characterization of the situation, though: they are at the church and are participating in the Mass in the church, but are simply utilizing various technologies to better enable them to see and hear the Mass as it is celebrated.

So, assuming that this is okay, what if the overflow area is in a separate building, such as the school gym/parish activities center?

This would begin to be problematic. I think that you could make the argument that they are not participating in that same Mass.

To my knowledge we still have a shortage of priests, one that is speculated to get worse as time goes on. There are priests which oversee two or more parishes in some areas.

There have been worse priest shortages, both in the U.S. and abroad. The answer, I would assert, is to fix the problem (more priests) rather than apply a band-aid (more video cameras)!

With the amazing advances in real time telecommunications (video/audio), could we have multiple groups of parishoners, each in a different church. One church would have the priest celebrating Mass, and the others would have a live feed. They of course would be participating by praying/singing. At Communion time, designated lay people (or a deacon) could distribute Communion.

The rubrics of the Mass ask for hosts consecrated at the Mass to be distributed to the people attending the Mass. Would those at alternate sites receive hosts consecrated at that Mass, or would they exclusively be receiving hosts consecrated at other Masses? Also, what would happen if there were a technology failure? Wouldn’t it be the case that these people were no longer maintaining any sort of contact with the Mass being celebrated? For these reasons, (and I’m sure we can come up with many more!), I would say that this solution doesn’t hold up to scrutiny…

Would this be a viable alternative (assuming no better alternatives were available)?

I would think that the issue here is, to some extent, an issue of convenience rather than one of availability. Lots and lots of folks want to go to the 4pm Mass on Christmas eve; less want to go at 7:30 or 8 or 9am on Christmas day. Your suggestion would make things more convenient for folks. If there’s a true shortage of priests… maybe a little bit of inconvenience would make folks realize that we need to encourage vocations among our young men!

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I wish we would work as hard at getting young men into seminaries as we do creating solutions for a lack of clergy. Whenever American dioceses get serious enough to start looking in their own dioceses instead of relying on supplies from other countries, we won’t need to have teleconferenced Masses.

 

[brent68]

Thanks for your reply. I’ve been thinking about this off and on for a while, and wanted to bounce my thoughts around and get others ideas.

No problems with this approach. I would disagree with your characterization of the situation, though: they are at the church and are participating in the Mass in the church, but are simply utilizing various technologies to better enable them to see and hear the Mass as it is celebrated.

Makes sense

This would begin to be problematic. I think that you could make the argument that they are not participating in that same Mass.

True, but those in the basement wouldn’t be able to see an hear anything without the technology. I’m not seeing a big difference between the two other than one would not have to go outside to get to the main group.

There have been worse priest shortages, both in the U.S. and abroad. The answer, I would assert, is to fix the problem (more priests) rather than apply a band-aid (more video cameras)!

Agreed. Again, just speculating on a worst case scenario.

The rubrics of the Mass ask for hosts consecrated at the Mass to be distributed to the people attending the Mass. Would those at alternate sites receive hosts consecrated at that Mass, or would they exclusively be receiving hosts consecrated at other Masses?

That makes sense. How does that rubric account for the fact that at almost every Mass I’ve attended, additional hosts consecrated at previous Masses are used? And that extra consecrated hosts are put in the tabernacle for later Masses? Please forgive my terminology, but does it make a difference whether one receives a “fresh” host or one consecrated previously? I would think a good percentage of those at Mass receive a host that was consecrated at a previous Mass.

Also, what would happen if there were a technology failure? Wouldn’t it be the case that these people were no longer maintaining any sort of contact with the Mass being celebrated? For these reasons, (and I’m sure we can come up with many more!), I would say that this solution doesn’t hold up to scrutiny…

True, and this could happen with the overflow in my church’s basement as well. It would be problematic.

It definitely wouldn’t be an ideal situation, but like I said, I was just thinking how we would make the best of a worst case situation.

I would think that the issue here is, to some extent, an issue of convenience rather than one of availability. Lots and lots of folks want to go to the 4pm Mass on Christmas eve; less want to go at 7:30 or 8 or 9am on Christmas day.
Your suggestion would make things more convenient for folks.

This is true. I’m sure there is probably one Mass that is not full on Christmas.

One of the potential issues could be that of physical closeness. Some of the priests in my archdiocese are responsible for multiple parishes, that are in rural areas, with a bit of traveling required of them to get between them. I’m thinking that in more urban areas the traveling bit wouldn’t be much of an issue. I could foresee parishes combining with larger churches available for Masses, but in some rural states you might have to travel 45 minutes or more to get to a church. I suppose that might not be much of an issue for most people, but it might be for some.

If there’s a true shortage of priests… maybe a little bit of inconvenience would make folks realize that we need to encourage vocations among our young men!

Oh yes, we definitely do need to encourage vocations!

 

[brent68]

I wish we would work as hard at getting young men into seminaries as we do creating solutions for a lack of clergy. Whenever American dioceses get serious enough to start looking in their own dioceses instead of relying on supplies from other countries, we won’t need to have teleconferenced Masses.

I agree. There seems to be a good bunch of seminarians in my local archdiocese today, but more is better. There also seems to be a lot of men being called to the permanent diaconate here as well.

I pray for vocations. But, I’m a techie/engineer at heart, so I tend to look for ways technology could help us.

 

[Pilgrim1701]

Why don’t we all just watch the Pope on a Sunday?
There’s a difference between accommodating a large crowd who have bothered to to turn up, and telling people the can just watch along on tv.
Even if there’s a shortage of priests, a deacon led/, religious led/,lay led communion service, with pre consecrated hosts would be preferable, or a liturgy of the word with no communion.
One has to be present to fulfil the obligation, if one can’t, they are usually exempt anyhow.
Same reason why you can’t make confession, or any sacrament really ove telecommunications.

 

[atassina]

Seems to me we have already forgotten the last century or two-- priests made a circuit to celebrate Mass-- every few weeks or months.

Alaska- - -
If you have ever received an appeal from the bishop of Alaska, he notes that the Catholics on that island receive a visit from a priest once a year.

Seems to me that telepresence is a good intermediate step and not a permanent fix.

 

[1ke]

First of all, is there any problems with doing so, and does this meet the requirements of participating in Mass for those in the basement area?

Yes, that is a problem and no it does not fulfill the obligation to watch mass on closed circuit tv.

Our parish had a similar problem of too many people (every week, not just on special occasions) and proposed the video feed into the chapel as a solution-- big fat NO, cannot be done. One must be physically present in the same place as the celebrant, not watching from another room or building or on tv or over the internet or anything else.

My thoughts are that even though they are not physically in the same room, they are fully participating, and are partaking in Communion as well.

So, assuming that this is okay, what if the overflow area is in a separate building, such as the school gym/parish activities center?

It is not “ok”.

With the amazing advances in real time telecommunications (video/audio), could we have multiple groups of parishoners, each in a different church. One church would have the priest celebrating Mass, and the others would have a live feed. They of course would be participating by praying/singing. At Communion time, designated lay people (or a deacon) could distribute Communion.

Would this be a viable alternative (assuming no better alternatives were available)?

No.

 

[BettyBoop416]

– big fat NO, cannot be done.

That may be the case in your diocese, but your “big fat NO” is not universal.

A few years ago I traveled with my BBF to her hometown in the Philippines. This was the week before Christmas, and we attended a very early morning Mass. These Masses are typically very well attended, and sure enough, there was a mob of people there. The church itself was packed to the rafters and several closed-circuit TVs were set up outside to accommodate the hundreds of people who could not get inside the church. When it was time for Holy Communion, several priests came out to distribute the Eucharist.

Are you claiming that the people outside the church did not attend Mass?

 

[John_of_Woking]

Yes, that is a problem and no it does not fulfill the obligation to watch mass on closed circuit tv.

Our parish had a similar problem of too many people (every week, not just on special occasions) and proposed the video feed into the chapel as a solution-- big fat NO, cannot be done. One must be physically present in the same place as the celebrant, not watching from another room or building or on tv or over the internet or anything else.

It is not “ok”.

For the first time ever I disagree. I went to St. Peter’s Rome for Easter. They constructed giant tv screens outside. There was not enough room in the building

No.

 

[thistle]

This post has an immediate question as well as some speculative questions.

My local parish, like many, has a “problem”, that at Christmas and Easter Mass, there is not enough room for all the people to gather. So, as a solution to the problem, we are using the large meeting area in the church basement as overflow seating. We have a video camera and projector downstairs so that those downstairs can see and hear the Mass and can participate, and Communion is distributed downstairs as well.

First of all, is there any problems with doing so, and does this meet the requirements of participating in Mass for those in the basement area? My thoughts are that even though they are not physically in the same room, they are fully participating, and are partaking in Communion as well.

So, assuming that this is okay, what if the overflow area is in a separate building, such as the school gym/parish activities center?

Now for the speculative.

To my knowledge we still have a shortage of priests, one that is speculated to get worse as time goes on. There are priests which oversee two or more parishes in some areas.

So, based on my parish’s solution to the Christmas/Easter problem, I was thinking of ways to address the priest shortage.

With the amazing advances in real time telecommunications (video/audio), could we have multiple groups of parishoners, each in a different church. One church would have the priest celebrating Mass, and the others would have a live feed. They of course would be participating by praying/singing. At Communion time, designated lay people (or a deacon) could distribute Communion.

Would this be a viable alternative (assuming no better alternatives were available)?

Our parish Church has 10 Masses every Sunday and all other Holy Days of Obligation to accommodate eveyone. We have about 14,000 parishioners and an average 80% Mass attendance.

 

[pnewton]

That may be the case in your diocese, but your “big fat NO” is not universal.

Well, we are speculating as to the future. A “big fat no” is the answer for today, but none of us no the future. Still, I agree with the sentiment that it will never happen. There is a reason for presence, as in Jesus present in the Eucharist, God present on the cross and us present at Mass. God could have telecommuted and saved a lot of trouble and choose not to.

The only time I go stuck in an overflow area, there was another priest there with us.

 

[brent68]

I have recently spoken with a friend who is currently in the Permanent Diaconate Formation Program. He had spoken with a fellow theologian about this concept, and his answer was that it depended on the intention of the person attending (in regards to the overflow in the basement). The reasoning was that if you are intending to participate in the Mass, by praying/singing etc, and communion is brought in, you are indeed participating in Mass.

Maybe this varies from diocese to diocese, I don’t know.

 

[brent68]

Well, we are speculating as to the future. A “big fat no” is the answer for today, but none of us no the future. Still, I agree with the sentiment that it will never happen. There is a reason for presence, as in Jesus present in the Eucharist, God present on the cross and us present at Mass. God could have telecommuted and saved a lot of trouble and choose not to.

The only time I go stuck in an overflow area, there was another priest there with us.

I agree, there is a reason for physical presence, Someone watching Mass on TV at home is not really participating in Mass IMO. However, if they have no way of getting to Mass (homebound) then I believe they don’t have the obligation to go.

But, like I said, my follow up questions were purely speculative, based on a worst case scenario. I can definitely see other options that would be better.

 

[brent68]

Our parish Church has 10 Masses every Sunday and all other Holy Days of Obligation to accommodate eveyone. We have about 14,000 parishioners and an average 80% Mass attendance.

Praise God! How many priests do you have at your parish? My parish has one full time priest, no associate on staff, and we “borrow” another priest to assist. We have 3 Masses on Sunday and one Sat evening Mass. It’s a fairly large parish, couldn’t tell you the average attendance though.

 

[thistle]

Praise God! How many priests do you have at your parish? My parish has one full time priest, no associate on staff, and we “borrow” another priest to assist. We have 3 Masses on Sunday and one Sat evening Mass. It’s a fairly large parish, couldn’t tell you the average attendance though.

We have 3 priests and we also have visiting priests.