Mass without a Priest

[edward_george]

What about water? If the small amount of water is omitted, is that incorret matter?

I’m just curious as I saw it omitted once. Probably just an oversight but it did make me wonder.

-Tim-

No, the water is not essential to the validity of the sacrament. The only case where the mingling of the water and wine could affect validity would be in the reverse–adding too much water, such that the wine is no longer recognizable as wine, and thus is invalid matter.

-ACEGC

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The consecration is valid, but the Mass itself isn’t because the sacrifice isn’t completed. So you’re receiving the actual body, blood soul and divinity of Jesus, just of within a valid Mass. This is why mustum had to be introduced for alcoholic priests, and why people with celiacs cannot be ordained priests.

The consecration is the only thing that validity talks about. There is no such beast as a valid consecration and an invalid Mass.

This is where licity comes in.

In other words validity covers the Sacrament, in this case the Eucharist. The Mass is not a Sacrament.

So the Mass is valid but illicit if the priest does not consume both species.

 

[edward_george]

The consecration is valid, but the Mass itself isn’t because the sacrifice isn’t completed. So you’re receiving the actual body, blood soul and divinity of Jesus, just of within a valid Mass. This is why mustum had to be introduced for alcoholic priests, and why people with celiacs cannot be ordained priests.

Point of order: people with celiac disease/gluten intolerance can be ordained priests, as low-gluten hosts which are certified by the Bishops as being valid matter can be used. I happen to know of priests and seminarians who have this condition.

-ACEGC

 

[dochawk]

No, the water is not essential to the validity of the sacrament. The only case where the mingling of the water and wine could affect validity would be in the reverse–adding too much water, such that the wine is no longer recognizable as wine, and thus is invalid matter.

For that matter, I believe that many of the Eastern Churches do not use water at all. In the Ruthenian and some other Slavic Churches, warm water is added later. I hesitate to phrase it as “after” the Consecration, as we don’t pin down such details as the west does.

This is the only use of water though (well, except for keeping the priest’s throat from going dry ), and not all Eastern Churches do this.

hawk

 

[poche]

There is no mass without a priest.