Matt 5: 27-32

[LtTony]

27] "You have heard that it was said, You shall not commit adultery.' **28**] But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. **29**] If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. **30**] And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. **31**] "It was also said, Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
32] But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
**
Anyone have a link to a Catholic perspective on this piece of Scipture.

I ask because the pastor at my wife’s church preached on it last Sunday. It was a great sermon in many respects, but I was never so grateful to be Catholic and never so sorry for Prots.
Good points: frank talk on porn, illicit relationships and their temptations. Prot perspective on divorce.
Bad points: Prot perspective on divorce. In some respects I now appreciate where they are coming from, which is not entirely unreasonable. On the other hand, the pastor prefaced his remarks with “This is my interpretation…” Huh? Way to pin it down, rev.
The altar call: This was sad. The pastor called anyone struggling with these problems to come forward and pray with him.
Nobody. None.
He then said, “I know these things are embarassing, so if you want to talk privately…”
**Thank you, Jesus, for confession! **A sacrament that is private, yet you have to look someone in the eye.

I think my wife and kids noticed many of the same things I did. I would like to talk them over in a Catholic perspective. Generally, I can do that. But I would like some background info.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[YinYangMom]

LtTony:

31] "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
32] But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

That bit about ‘except on the ground of unchastity’ is really, really interesting. I would expect the Church then to allow divorce in the case of the husband or the wife having extramarital relations…

I suppose the logic being, once either party engages in an extramarital sexual relationship they make themselves adulterers…

whereas, if the husband divorces the wife for other reasons - while neither have had extramarital relatiosn - then, yes - each is driven to commit adultery once they ‘hook up’ with another person.

Seems to be saying having extramarital relations is THE only grounds by which divorce would be allowed…

If I recall the instructions I’ve had along the way, the reason the Church doesn’t allow divorce even in that situation, is because the sin of the one person forces the other to sin after the divorce and that isn’t in the best interest of the soul of the wronged party. If the man has the affair and files for divorce, he is forcing the woman to commit adultery (kinda like Eve and Adam with the apple) should she happen to fall in love again. Of course, the divorced woman has the final say in that - by living a chaste life until the end of her days despite the predicament her ex-husband put her into. (Adam could have said no).

And yet, this passage seems to suggest the woman would not be guilty of adultery should she enter into a new intimate relationship after the divorce because she was the wronged party to begin with and therefore was ‘allowed’ to be divorced from the unfaithful spouse.

 

[Pete2]

What translation are you quoting from? The NAB interpretation of verse 32 is:

But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

That parenthetical sounds like the justification for annulment. I don’t know how unchastity plays into it. Not an area that I have any experience in, thankfully.

Pete

 

[Fidelis]

That bit about ‘except on the ground of unchastity’ is really, really interesting. I would expect the Church then to allow divorce in the case of the husband or the wife having extramarital relations…

I suppose the logic being, once either party engages in an extramarital sexual relationship they make themselves adulterers…

whereas, if the husband divorces the wife for other reasons - while neither have had extramarital relatiosn - then, yes - each is driven to commit adultery once they ‘hook up’ with another person.

Seems to be saying having extramarital relations is THE only grounds by which divorce would be allowed…

If I recall the instructions I’ve had along the way, the reason the Church doesn’t allow divorce even in that situation, is because the sin of the one person forces the other to sin after the divorce and that isn’t in the best interest of the soul of the wronged party. If the man has the affair and files for divorce, he is forcing the woman to commit adultery (kinda like Eve and Adam with the apple) should she happen to fall in love again. Of course, the divorced woman has the final say in that - by living a chaste life until the end of her days despite the predicament her ex-husband put her into. (Adam could have said no).

And yet, this passage seems to suggest the woman would not be guilty of adultery should she enter into a new intimate relationship after the divorce because she was the wronged party to begin with and therefore was ‘allowed’ to be divorced from the unfaithful spouse.

It is easy to mistake this as addressing adultery. The problem is with the Greek word being translated as “unchastity.” The word “porniea” (where we get our word “pornography”) more accurately descibes unlawful (i.e., unclean) marriage situations as they are deliniated in the Old Testament and the natural law. These include incest and other forbidden unions between close family members. Thus, Jesus is not addressing unfaithfulness in marriage, but marriges that should not have taken place in the first place.

 

[LtTony]

YinYangMom:

That bit about ‘except on the ground of unchastity’ is really, really interesting. I would expect the Church then to allow divorce in the case of the husband or the wife having extramarital relations…

The way this pastor explained was divorce is OK, according to HIS interpretation, if the offending party is unrepentent. He used the Greek translation that Fidelis mentions.
If a couple does divorce, each can be forgiven if they repent. They are free to marry again.
The guy left a LOT of gray area, IMO. I’d guess a good third of the congregation has been divorced.
I used RSV, Pete, for the quote.
Again, I ask if anyone knows of a good web page that discusses Catholicism and divorce. I will check the cathecism.

Jim

 

[Fidelis]

LtTony:

The way this pastor explained was divorce is OK, according to HIS interpretation, if the offending party is unrepentent. He used the Greek translation that Fidelis mentions.
If a couple does divorce, each can be forgiven if they repent. They are free to marry again.
The guy left a LOT of gray area, IMO. I’d guess a good third of the congregation has been divorced.
I used RSV, Pete, for the quote.
Again, I ask if anyone knows of a good web page that discusses Catholicism and divorce. I will check the cathecism.

Jim

Here’s a *Catholic Answers * article that addresses this very question:

catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0007bt.asp
Did Jesus Say Adultery Is Grounds for Divorce?

 

[LtTony]

For clarification: my wife explained that the pastor was saying was that if you divorced prior to becoming a baptised Christian, then you can re-marry. However, divorce is not an option after you join the church.

This is similar to Catholic teaching, I believe, but I understood the sermon differently than my wife.

And thanks for the link Fidelis.

Jim

 

[MilesJesu]

LtTony,

Mt 5 needs to be read along with Mt 19:3-11 which states:

3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two** but one flesh**. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.” 10 The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” 11 But he said to them, "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given.

It is a hard teaching indeed, and not all can receive this saying. The CCC addresses divorce in paragraphs: 2382 saying:

"[2382](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2382.htm’) The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.174 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.175
Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."176

Paragraph 1650 provides a little more in-depth discussion making a distinction between a civil marriage and sacramental marriage. I highlighted what I think are key points in the CCC and scripture passage.

Peace,

MilesJesu