Maybe this is something I will never understand

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Obviously the big ones - murder, theft, rape, etc. There are sins that have obvious negative effects on transgressor, society, and their victims. Some sins I do not understand. If there are no negative consequences for particular sins, why are they sins? For example, sex before marriage. I understand adultery and promiscuity. People can have sex with their girlfriend/boyfriend, then later marry them. I do not understand how thoughts are sins either. At least you have enough self-control to NOT act on them? What about thinking you are better than others? What if you honestly are better than they are? Some people are more beautiful, more intelligent, more athletic, more personable than average. Some people seem quite possible of being an excellent individual without ever believing Christ, while others do not. Some people truly believe in God, yet they sin. I understand sin is a choice. At the same time, I do not fully understand free-will. Some children right from the womb for whatever reason they just more stubborn, more prone to emotional outbursts, more demanding of attention, while others are fine to play by themselves, quiet and can easily obey their parents. Some people are more easily prone to addictions than others.

Transgressing God’s law really does not seem like a big deal to me, if they are no real consequences. If you do not feel guilty, if you do not hurt others, if society does not disapprove.

Some people hold guilt that is not even theirs.

People say becoming holy is a matter of will-power. Why do saints even fail from time to time? Peter was with Jesus when he performed miracles, he denied him three times. One of the disciples did not believe the resurrections.

Perhaps there is so truth that people cannot help their sinful nature.
 
There are people I know who are terrified of confrontation. I know others that are not afraid to beat the life out of someone. They can walk away without thinking much of it. They come from the same household, same parenting style.
There are people who struggle with alcoholism for decades. Some people -one year- they are sober and back to normal, they may relapse from time to time. I cannot say who is trying harder because I do not know.
 
I understand your point of view, but I would advise you not to think so lightly of transgressing God’s Law. You have stated that certain things don’t really have any visible bad effects, only that they are in transgression of God’s Divine Law.

This is a very materialist point of view: that only things which cause material evil are evil. But the spiritual harm that can be done in the world is far, far worse, and infinitely more permanent, (I say that without exaggeration, because the spiritual consequences of our actions can send us to Heaven or Hell for all eternity) so I would not think so lightly of God’s Divine Law.

Additionally, to answer the materialist side of your viewpoint: there is no sin on this earth which does not have a tangible evil effect. Sometimes the evil effect is difficult to trace without much study, but in all cases it has been conclusively shown that there are, indeed, evil consequences to all evil actions.
 
I’m waiting for the conclusive studies. In all cases.
I hardly know what all the cases are.
Citation request.
 
I do not understand how thoughts are sins either. At least you have enough self-control to NOT act on them?
Maybe you should thing on this quotation by Ralph Waldo Emerson:

“Sow a thought and you reap an action; sow an act and you reap a habit; sow a habit and you reap a character; sow a character and you reap a destiny.”***

I sort of get the impression that you have existentialist leanings, and I must tell you that Existentialism without a Christian underpinning will lead to darkness and despair.

Take Care.
 
I understand your point of view, but I would advise you not to think so lightly of transgressing God’s Law. You have stated that certain things don’t really have any visible bad effects, only that they are in transgression of God’s Divine Law.

This is a very materialist point of view: that only things which cause material evil are evil. But the spiritual harm that can be done in the world is far, far worse, and infinitely more permanent, (I say that without exaggeration, because the spiritual consequences of our actions can send us to Heaven or Hell for all eternity) so I would not think so lightly of God’s Divine Law.

Additionally, to answer the materialist side of your viewpoint: there is no sin on this earth which does not have a tangible evil effect. Sometimes the evil effect is difficult to trace without much study, but in all cases it has been conclusively shown that there are, indeed, evil consequences to all evil actions.
True, sir. True.
 
There are people I know who are terrified of confrontation. I know others that are not afraid to beat the life out of someone. They can walk away without thinking much of it. They come from the same household, same parenting style.
There are people who struggle with alcoholism for decades. Some people -one year- they are sober and back to normal, they may relapse from time to time. I cannot say who is trying harder because I do not know.
I think you’re trying really hard to have a confrontation with evil. Don’t go there.
You many threads are questioning sin, the effects, of sin, and the causes of sin.
You fascination with this is indeed dangerous. I agree wholeheartedly with what Jamal says.
People are unique. But all are can fall under the prince of lies. Stop looking to things that are evil and trying to figure them out. They are there, will likely always be there.
Put yourself in a place of seeking the good in people, the best that you can be, the people that are the hands and feet of Christ, the humble ones.
THERE you will find answers that satisfy.
 
I would certainly say I have a difficult time seeing what is “wrong” with things that do not visibly or necessarily hurt others.

Scripturally speaking, God says not to do certain things not because doing them would hurt others, but because doing those things is contrary to His original order… and if we love God we want to uphold that order, which means thinking pure thoughts and not indulging impure thoughts even if they never lead to an impure action…
The love-story between God and man consists in the very fact that this communion of will increases in a communion of thought and sentiment, and thus our will and God’s will increasingly coincide: God’s will is no longer for me an alien will, something imposed on me from without by the commandments, but it is now my own will, based on the realization that God is in fact more deeply present to me than I am to myself. Then self-abandonment to God increases and God becomes our joy (cf. Ps 73 [72]:23-28). -Pope Benedict XVI, Deus Caritas Est
so that even if something doesn’t hurt anybody else, we would still refrain from doing it out of love for God and respect for what appears to be His commands (even if they make no sense to an ethical theory of what is wrong is what harms other people).

Regarding the apparent helplessness of some people towards addiction, or other weaknesses… yes, some people do have a disposition towards certain behaviors and perhaps at times a cognitive inability to directly act contrary to that disposition… they can only indirectly act so as to alter their disposition… we each have different dispositions, but we still choose whether to act according to them or act contrary to them… it can be psychologically impossible for someone to NOT think of pornographic images, when such a thing would never occur in someone else’s brain–but that person with that psychological difficulty CAN choose to indirectly influence their disposition even though they cannot DIRECTLY choose to think of something else… they can do something that will cause them to think of something else naturally. Instead of sitting alone staring at the ceiling, they listen to a song for example with lyrics that direct their mind to some other topic, watch a movie that directs the mind elsewhere, get into a conversation with someone on something else, and eventually the thoughts will drift away from pornography to something else.

As Seneca said,“The greatest remedy for anger is delay.”

So a person can train themselves to repsond to their negative dispositions with some kind of delay tactic, such as outlined above… or as we know exercises like breathing deeply and slowly for people suddenly filled with rage… it helps calm one down, so even if one’s natural reaction is a temper tantrum, one can ignore that impulse and even change it with a few indirect methods.
 
Additionally, to answer the materialist side of your viewpoint: there is no sin on this earth which does not have a tangible evil effect. Sometimes the evil effect is difficult to trace without much study, but in all cases it has been conclusively shown that there are, indeed, evil consequences to all evil actions.
In all cases? I can’t recall anyone investigating my love life with my wife before we got married.

Are you saying that there were evil consequences due to us making love the day before we signed some paperwork to be legally married and none due to our love making the day after?

That is, not to put too fine a point on it, farcical.
 
In all cases? I can’t recall anyone investigating my love life with my wife before we got married.

Are you saying that there were evil consequences due to us making love the day before we signed some paperwork to be legally married and none due to our love making the day after?

That is, not to put too fine a point on it, farcical.
He or she claims that in all cases it has been conclusively shown.

No citations, let alone examples of all cases.
 
If there are no negative consequences for particular sins, why are they sins? For example, sex before marriage. I understand adultery and promiscuity. People can have sex with their girlfriend/boyfriend, then later marry them. I do not understand how thoughts are sins either.
There are no negative consequences for sex before marriage? Really?
Let’s just have a look see…

Since the pill became widely available there’s been a lot of sex without marriage. What we’ve seen is a huge jump in sexually transmitted diseases. Not only in the number of people who have become infected but the types of diseases that one can catch.

When artificial contraception fails and the woman becomes pregnant, well guess what. The pregnancy was never meant to happen in the first place so then there’s a demand that abortion become legal and available. In Canada there is no limit on how far along the woman is so if she wants an abortion at 8 months she only needs to find someone willing to terminate. It’s legal. This is not good for babies. It’s not good for women. It’s not good for young men who think they can be promiscuous and there’s no consequences. It’s not good for the country who is making tax payers pay for these services.

Single women who do get pregnant and keep their babies make up a huge section of the population that are living below the poverty line. This is not good for women. It’s not good for babies. It’s not good for the country forcing the tax payers to foot the bill.

A grandma told me how her 30 something grandson was ‘finally’ getting married. I made the comment that when they start their family, she’ll be a great grandma. Well, she said, between the 2 of them, they have 7 children from different partners, so no, they will not be having children together. What a mess.

God has a plan for sex, for marriage, for love and families, and it’s a good plan. He wants to pour out blessing upon our families but we’ve totally lost interest in what His plan is for us. Can you imagine for a moment what the world would be like if everyone followed His plan for sex and marriage? For one, all those sexually transmitted diseases would disappear. AIDS too. How many broken hearts would not be broken? How many babies would be born to 2 people within a committed married relationship? Would there be a demand for abortion services or would abortion be so uncommon that doctors would give it up to practice medicine? All those tax dollars could go to something else. Maybe some of those dollars could stay in the pockets of hard working people. This one topic doesn’t even touch if everyone magically stopped stealing which is another Commandment that God gave to the world. What kind of world would that be? We can’t even imagine. God’s plan is a good plan. One full of blessing. What I find so very strange is that I have to come on Catholic Answers to write down these very obvious and serious consequences. You don’t have to be religious to see the crash and burn that has happened over the last few decades. The millions of abortions performed remains invisible to the general public, but don’t worry. God knows each and every one of them. This was not in His plan. That’s a man made disaster.
 
If there are no negative consequences for particular sins, why are they sins? For example, sex before marriage. I understand adultery and promiscuity. People can have sex with their girlfriend/boyfriend, then later marry them. I do not understand how thoughts are sins either. At least you have enough self-control to NOT act on them? What about thinking you are better than others? What if you honestly are better than they are? Some people are more beautiful, more intelligent, more athletic, more personable than average. …] Some people truly believe in God, yet they sin. I understand sin is a choice. At the same time, I do not fully understand free-will.
Sorry for the long post, but I would like to try to explain some of your points.

While in most sins (yes, MOST) we do not immediately see the negative effect, they are there. They might only show up 10-20, or maybe 50 years in the future, but they are there.

Sex before marriage, even if the involved people end up married, is a bad thing by the same reason that contraception in-marriage and homosexual sex is condemned. The moment you consider sex for pleasure only, you devalue sex to just a carnal (for fun) act - even between wife and husband. While this is not something observable, couples end up creating a distorted belief of what is marriage, sex and love - for example, people have great difficulty in understanding that love between man and wife does not depend on sex (which is why, when you mention ‘live as brother and sister’ to remarried couples, they get defensive).

There are studies that show that, when a relationship starts early with sex the couple has trouble relating to each other in other aspects, have poor communication, and less relationship satisfaction. (look for: ‘Compatibility or restraint? The effects of sexual timing on marriage relationships’ - it is difficult to find the full text online, but just the results already show that ‘waiting is better’).

STDs… people think that sex can be inoffensive, and still are surprised when Chlamydia says hi. When one believes that sex does not hurt anyone, this happens. Because, EVENTUALLY, they will be careless. “I’ve known her for months”, “We’ve been dating for years”. Think: if people only had sex with their spouse, and adultery didn’t exist, STDs wouldn’t be so widespread.

Sex is not a sin. But it can place a person in a risky situation, and anything that can hurt us can become sin. Just like our…

Thoughts. These are specially harmful to the soul. I’ll use myself as an example: I have a high IQ (higher than most, 135), and used to think myself better than my peers. I knew another language by age 11 (english, with portuguese as my native language), self-taught, while kids my age were still learning the basics with help from a language school. I had straight A’s. I didn’t need to study and still went better than everyone else. I was good at sports. Had many friends, and my peers liked me well enough. Never had problems in any aspect (social, academic, physical). I was the teacher’s favourite. I was even pretty. I was, for all intents and purposes, ‘better’ than my peers at academic situations.

I also was nice to them, never rubbed my grades on their faces, never laughed at their poor grades. I never bullied anyone, and usually helped the other kids to study to exams.

Still, I thought I was better. I held a firm belief that I was better than them. I felt that I was ‘specially special’ in this life, and was destined to great things.

It didn’t hurt anyone back then… but it did hurt someone later in my life: me. :o

As I knew I was smart, I studied to get into the best university my country has to offer. The problem? There are smarter people in the world. This was a strong punch to my ego, a roundhouse kick to my pride. I tried for three years, with help from a school dedicated to passing these exams, but all for naught. I had depression, 3 years. It was really bad for me, this fall.

It was humbling, as well.

Case in point: our thoughts, as harmless as they might seem, CAN be harmful. They either will make a bad person out of you (if you act on them), or they will slap you in the face later (as they did for me).

Feeding your Pride through thoughts is as bad as feeding your Gluttony with cake, or your Sloth with Netflix. You may not feel it at the time, but you will recognize the harm your sin caused when you get diabetes or depression. (a study has shown association with binge-watching Netflix and depression).

(note: I eventually got accepted to my dream University 😃 but only after suffering a lot, and giving up my pride :rolleyes:)

Free will. See, God wanted to create a being in His image, which is, capable of Love. But love is an action - what people feel is affection, passion, but never love. To love is to act - I love when I give food to others, when I make my parents happier, when I suffer through a friend’s bitter rantings without complaining, and when I punch a friend in the face for thinking of doing something bad. (like we do when ‘condemning’ some public ‘sins’)

To Love, you need to have the option NOT to Love. If you only had the choice of doing good, there wouldn’t be the option of loving. For example (and this is a silly one): taxes. The moment that you pay taxes to provide for national health, you are ‘giving to the poor’, but there is no Charity (Love) in this action. Since you are FORCED to pay taxes, you don’t get to do it for love, for you have no other option. So, if you don’t have a choice, you can’t love.

God gave us free will because He wanted us to Love him. To choose him. And to choose, we need to have choices: Him or Sin.
 
Maybe I am misunderstanding this, so feel free to correct; but:

In the Old Testament law, there were two kinds of commandments.

The first, “mitzpatim”, were those having practical benefits (no work on the Sabbath, is beneficial to our wellbeing; no eating shellfish was a human health precaution).

The second, “jukim,” had no practical purpose (ie, not mixing kinds of fabric in clothing).

IIUC, while both were required, keeping the 2nd was even more meritorious than the first.

Our goal should not be to do the minimum of not hurting other human beings, but to “follow Him more nearly day by day.”

IMNAAHO

ICXC NIKA.
 
Maybe I am misunderstanding this, so feel free to correct; but:

In the Old Testament law, there were two kinds of commandments.

The first, “mitzpatim”, were those having practical benefits (no work on the Sabbath, is beneficial to our wellbeing; no eating shellfish was a human health precaution).

The second, “jukim,” had no practical purpose (ie, not mixing kinds of fabric in clothing).

IIUC, while both were required, keeping the 2nd was even more meritorious than the first.

Our goal should not be to do the minimum of not hurting other human beings, but to “follow Him more nearly day by day.”

IMNAAHO

ICXC NIKA.
That’s why you see so many wearing Nike.
 
I think you’re trying really hard to have a confrontation with evil. Don’t go there.
You many threads are questioning sin, the effects, of sin, and the causes of sin.
You fascination with this is indeed dangerous. I agree wholeheartedly with what Jamal says.
People are unique. But all are can fall under the prince of lies. Stop looking to things that are evil and trying to figure them out. They are there, will likely always be there.
Put yourself in a place of seeking the good in people, the best that you can be, the people that are the hands and feet of Christ, the humble ones.
THERE you will find answers that satisfy.
Ok I will stop.
 
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