Meat-less Fridays

[RSD]

(sigh)

WHEN Christmas is on a Friday, I know that it is not a day of Abstention in the church.

But I happen to eat fish on Fridays…

WHEN Christmas is on a Friday, I know that it is a day of Feast… but I have never in my life heard that on ANY day of Fast (Christmas, Sundays, etc) that I MUST Feast when it comes to food.

Are you telling me that I am REQUIRED to eat meat on Christmas? Are you telling me that I am REQUIRED to feast on Christmas? I have never heard of such a thing… and if you are telling me this, it will be a huge surprise to me.

Why? I don’t have to pretend it’s Thursday. I will just know that it is Christmas, and I know that I can eat meat…

It’s really not that big of a deal.

When I wake up on Christmas morning, and get my breakfast, I can have sausage, bacon, and any other meat I want.

Actually there is a quote, which with my sieve of a mind I cannot quite place but I think it is in Isaiah, that does say something about requiring people to feast. I believe that it is in reference to the New Jerusalem. “Eat rich foods, and drink good wines” it says. But I think a more relevant quote for your situation is St. Paul saying “Eat what is set before you.” He is speaking about the scruples some Christians have about eating meat which may have been originally killed as a sacrifice to idols, and then sold in the marketplace.

Obviously, I don’t know your situation as well as you do, I only know what I read here, so my interpretation is based on what you have written. It sounds like you want everybody in the church to accommodate your personally chosen penance. You do have good traditionally based reasons for choosing that particular penance, but be very clear that it is no more reasonable for the church to plan their menu around your choice, than if you decided that your penance would be never to wear shoes, so you want the church to be kept extra warm so your feet won’t freeze. Not wearing shoes is also a penance with a long history in the church (do you know about the “discalced” orders?) but one that is not at all popular in this society for a variety of reasons.

What I am much more interested in is the apparent abundance of church functions. I assume your complaint does not come from having one church function a year on a Friday? How do you get your church to have so many church functions? Would you please come to our parish? I will personally make you a fish dish, if you can get the parish to plan events with dinners.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Aside:

I’m also aware that on ANY Friday during the Christmas Octave that abstaining is not, and has not, been an expectation.

How are you aware of that? I do not believe it to be the case.

tee
Armchair Liturgical Calendar Nerd

 

[Apryl]

Obviously, I don’t know your situation as well as you do, I only know what I read here, so my interpretation is based on what you have written. It sounds like you want everybody in the church to accommodate your personally chosen penance.

And what did I say that sounded that way? I’m talking date/time of posts (we don’t use article numbers here).

Or could it be that someone else answered (something I hadn’t asked, or stated) and your perception is based upon that red herring

(is that the correct use of that? I was thinking ‘rabbit hole’, but that didn’t seem as smooth)

What I am much more interested in is the apparent abundance of church functions. I assume your complaint does not come from having one church function a year on a Friday? How do you get your church to have so many church functions? Would you please come to our parish? I will personally make you a fish dish, if you can get the parish to plan events with dinners.

I’m talking about functions at the church, the seminary, the Mother House, away from all the above but hosted by a Catholic group, going to someone’s home when the host is Catholic, etc.

Our church has a variety of functions because they are hosted by a variety of groups for a variety of reasons. We have the Altar Rosary Society, the Ushers, the Men’s Group, the Knights of Peter Claver (that’s four groups there), the Choir, the Youth Council… and there are other groups as well.

We also have church events… one event is the Annual Anniversary Dinner, which for several years has been held at the Seminary.

I do not expect them to cater their menu for me… but what about all the other people who would abstain from meat if this was an option? What about the people who may be new to the church who now think, ‘Oh, meatless Fridays? That’s old and we don’t do that any more’… something I have heard from some who don’t realize that Friday is still a day of Penance.

I just happen to not only be a squeaky wheel, but I brought it to this forum.

It only became an ‘issue’ for me when there was a group who had a dinner every year on this Friday, and they would have the meat filled menu. One year, I said, ‘there is no meatless choices’, and was told, ‘you should have said something when we were planning’

The following year, when they were planning, I said, ‘is there going to be a meatless choice?’ and was told that there most definitely would be. There was not.

The following year, when they were planning, I said, ‘is there going to be a meatless choice?’ and was told there most definitely would be. As the date got closer, I asked what the choices were, and was told there would be the meat options. I reminded them of the meatless choices. I asked, ‘would there be enough of something else for me to make a balanced meal?’ I was told there would be. There was not. When that group hosts anything on a Friday, I will not go, and they know this. Not only was I lied to (harsh words, but it fits), but I did ask specifically if I could eat a full meal. Had I been told in advance that there probably wouldn’t be enough, I could have eaten before I came and just made my ticket purchase a donation.

I felt the response was at the list disengenuous. Maybe as much as disrespectful. The last time I attended, when I was sitting there (looking so very hungry), someone said, ‘they could have had tuna salad’. The options were chicken, pork, chicken ceasar salad, chicken salad, roast beef. Even if I was going to eat meat, that was a lot of meat on the table!

Do I think they should have altered their menu for me? Heavens, no! But I think that the menu was unbalanced, and adding some meatless choices (a garden salad, for example, with some hard boiled eggs) would have helped to balance it.

 

[Apryl]

How are you aware of that? I do not believe it to be the case.

I’m posting late at night (it’s 3 am in my world) and nearly asleep, but I believe it is in the CCC in the same area where they talk about fasting because of Fridays.

The Christmas Octave is a TIME of Feast, not just Christmas Day.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I’m posting late at night (it’s 3 am in my world) and nearly asleep, but I believe it is in the CCC in the same area where they talk about fasting because of Fridays.

The Christmas Octave is a TIME of Feast, not just Christmas Day.

The CCC, to my knowledge, does not speak directly to Friday meat abstinence. I welcome correction if I am mistaken.

The CIC however has this to say (with

emphasis

added):

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays,

unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday

. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

That is why this year, with the Solemnity of the Nativity itself falling on a Friday, and the Solemnity of Mary, the Mother of God, naturally on the succeeding Friday (the Octave of Christmas), no meat abstinence (nor other penance) is required.

In any other year, however, the Friday in the Octave of Christmas would not rank as a solemnity. Rather, the days in the octave rank between a memorial and a feast (hence the latter take precedence and the former become commemorations).

That is my understanding, but I would welcome correction.

Perhaps you are misremembering and mixing up the Octave of Christmas with the Octave of Easter, which days do rank as solemnities?

tee

 

[LilyM]

(sigh)

Are you telling me that I am REQUIRED to eat meat on Christmas? Are you telling me that I am REQUIRED to feast on Christmas? I have never heard of such a thing… and if you are telling me this, it will be a huge surprise to me.

/QUOTE]

Required to eat meat? No, never. Required to feast? Absolutely. The angels of heaven themselves rejoiced on the day of Our Lord’s birth. So did the shepherds and wise men. So should we - feasting is but one way. Not to the point of gluttony, of course, but feast for sure.

Our Lord said something to the effect of ‘when the Bridegroom is among them, the attendants will feast, when He is taken away, then will they fast’. So when is He more among us than at Christmas? When is it less appropriate (or conversely more inappropriate) to fast than a celebration of such untempered joy as Christmas?

Fast and abstain for all of Advent if you want - that is a very proper season set aside especially for penance. Christmas isn’t.

 

[Hesychios]

(sigh)

WHEN Christmas is on a Friday, I know that it is not a day of Abstention in the church.

But I happen to eat fish on Fridays…

I hope that I have not offended you.

I think that it would sound better to say that you happen to like fish, not that you have a thing about eating it in a certain day of the week.

I think perhaps you should suggest a nice supply of prepared fish is available for the next function. It should be easy to do.

 

[puzzleannie]

I understand that the church no longer obliges us to abstain from Fish on every Friday of the year…

but what I don’t get is that I go to CATHOLIC functions, in CATHOLIC locations, and I can’t find Fish.

so what?
if the discipline is not obligated, they are not obligated to serve a meatless meal. Fish is not the only meatless choice, you know. If you personally, for reasons of your personal piety (not in a matter calculated to inflict guilt upon others) decide to forgoe meat on Friday simply eat everything put before you, except the meat. and do it quietly. Any attempt to proselytize on this issue will quickly negate any spiritual good you will derive from the penance.

anyone whose health was an issue like a diabetic or pregant woman was not obligated even under the old discipline to fast or abstain so it makes no sense to obligate yourself in that way if you have a health issue.

If you had ever planned a meal for a large group you will know how impossible it is to please everyone, or to offer multiple choices. Why not offer to volunteer to work at those functions so you can have some (name removed by moderator)ut in the kitchen?

 

[brotherhrolf]

I want to thank Annie for her cogent observation about diabetics and fasting. As a diabetic, I can no longer fast BUT I can do more as I explained before.

One does not have to have meat to celebrate Christmas. As I pointed out earlier, there is seafood gumbo, shrimp creole, oyster and artichoke soup, etc. In many ways, those foods are far superior to a slab of beef, chicken, lamb, etc. I don’t hesitate in restaurants to go for the seafood before the meat no matter the day.

 

[Apryl]

The CCC, to my knowledge, does not speak directly to Friday meat abstinence. I welcome correction if I am mistaken.

I stand corrected

Not that it matters one way or another… really… for me, I would look into it on a year/day when it matters.

Christmas isn’t until this weekend… then I’ll concern myself with the Feast/Absienance question on that day.

 

[Apryl]

I hope that I have not offended you.

Apology accepted

I think that it would sound better to say that you happen to like fish, not that you have a thing about eating it in a certain day of the week.

I like fish

I happen to have a thing about eating fish on a certain day of the week

My thread isn’t about certain days… it’s about having choices

I go to Protestant events on Friday, and for some reason, you can bet dollars to donoughts there will be fish there! Why is this not so in Catholic-World?

I think perhaps you should suggest a nice supply of prepared fish is available for the next function. It should be easy to do.

You mean me cook?

(snicker)

Um… no

I have suggested meatless (not necessarily fish) options

Any other options?

 

[Apryl]

so what?
if the discipline is not obligated, they are not obligated to serve a meatless meal. Fish is not the only meatless choice, you know. If you personally, for reasons of your personal piety (not in a matter calculated to inflict guilt upon others) decide to forgoe meat on Friday simply eat everything put before you, except the meat. and do it quietly. Any attempt to proselytize on this issue will quickly negate any spiritual good you will derive from the penance.

anyone whose health was an issue like a diabetic or pregant woman was not obligated even under the old discipline to fast or abstain so it makes no sense to obligate yourself in that way if you have a health issue.

If you had ever planned a meal for a large group you will know how impossible it is to please everyone, or to offer multiple choices. Why not offer to volunteer to work at those functions so you can have some (name removed by moderator)ut in the kitchen?

Why so hostile?

Have you bothered to read the thread?

Maybe if you read the thread, I won’t need to repeat answers to the questions you are posing which would have prevented your hostile post.

Have a nice day.

 

[Jesus_123]

+**:christmastree1: **I have a great love, reverence and appreciation for how our Wonderful Lord has used **St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City **as a **great :shamrock2: blessing **in my life . . . and the Lord touched my heart and included my soul. . . “IN” . . . a number of years back . . . when **Archbishop John Cardinal O’Connor **prayerfully entreated us to dedicate our fasting from meat on Fridays to the pro-life cause of precious unborn children . . .

The love of, caring for, protection and catechism/teaching of both adults and children as to the truth of the precious holy gift of life . . . and the holy true purpose and meaning of this holy gift of God . . . as taught in **Sacred :bible1: Scripture **and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church . . . that all mankind be able . . .

+“to come to know . . . love . . . and serve God”+
by this holy priest/Archbishop/Cardinal . . . is still daily bearing phenomenal abundant holy fruit year after year . . . since this holy dedicated pro-life priest’s passing . . .

Because of this added holy dedication to the Church’s holy Friday fast in our household . . . we just prayed it through about the** Holy Christmas Feast of the Nativity of Jesus . . . and very peacefully . . . as our gift to that tiny Holy Babe in His humble little manger of straw . . . are now planning the traditional scrumptious traditional turkey dinner feast for early Christmas Eve . . . and will be choosing and preparing eggs dishes both hot and cold, fish dishes both hot and cold; cheese dishes both hot and cold; lots of wonderful vegetable and fruit dishes both hot and cold; candies, cookies, cakes, puddings and pies for deserts, etc. . . . for wonderful feasting on Holy Christmas Day **. . . there are fabulous recipies available to choose from . . . for a joyous and abundant . . . and one could even include the word . . . “economic” . . . delicious . . . meatless Christmas feast . . .

So the turkey came out of the freezer this morning . . . and is beginning it’s defrosting this Monday of Christmas week . . . and we are peacefully assured that . . . **after Christmas **. . . we will still have lots of leftover turkey for those great piled high sandwiches, and plenty of stuffing and gravy leftovers . . . all of which can be enjoyed following Christmas day . . .

. . . all for the Holy Infant Jesus+
. . . so beloved of God, Mary and Joseph+
. . . and so beloved of the holy angels and the holy shepherds+
. . . Jesus, Mary and Joseph save souls+
​