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mark_a
Guest
I forgot and eat meat yesterday without giving up anything else. Do I need to go to confession before going to communion again?
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CD4
Guest
mark a:
Why? You are under no obligation to forgo meat on Fridays (except during Lent, of course).
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Thomas2
Guest
Hey Mark,
Been there, done that and I did make it part of my Confession. But I go to Confession quite often as a devotion. If you genuinely forgot, like I did the day after Thanksgiving when invited to a friend’s house for a meal, then it would only be a venial sin. If you deliberately defied the discipline of the Church, it might be more grave, depending upon your reasons.
Most folks have been sadly mislead into believing that it is okay to eat meat on Fridays, except during Lent (as has CD who also replied to your question). This is not proper Church teaching. Friday is still a day of Penance in the universal Church. We are to honor the Passion and Death of our Lord on this day. We do this by voluntary penitential pratices, acts of mercy and such things as giving alms and keeping a fast. The voluntary abstinence from meat became an option for folks in the poorer nations where meat was seldom eaten anyway. Nothing really changed for us here in the western world were meat is a normal part of our diet. However, many have taken the opportunity to spread false teaching regarding this penitential practice, doing without meat on Friday or they have only passed along the part of it being an option leading folks to believe there was no longer a need to give anything up on Friday. This at best is only half the Truth. I suggest you find yourself an orthodox spiritual director or another person to help on your journey towards sanctity. Thank you for asking and may the Lord bless all your efforts at growing in holiness.
Peace and all good,
Thomas2
Been there, done that and I did make it part of my Confession. But I go to Confession quite often as a devotion. If you genuinely forgot, like I did the day after Thanksgiving when invited to a friend’s house for a meal, then it would only be a venial sin. If you deliberately defied the discipline of the Church, it might be more grave, depending upon your reasons.
Most folks have been sadly mislead into believing that it is okay to eat meat on Fridays, except during Lent (as has CD who also replied to your question). This is not proper Church teaching. Friday is still a day of Penance in the universal Church. We are to honor the Passion and Death of our Lord on this day. We do this by voluntary penitential pratices, acts of mercy and such things as giving alms and keeping a fast. The voluntary abstinence from meat became an option for folks in the poorer nations where meat was seldom eaten anyway. Nothing really changed for us here in the western world were meat is a normal part of our diet. However, many have taken the opportunity to spread false teaching regarding this penitential practice, doing without meat on Friday or they have only passed along the part of it being an option leading folks to believe there was no longer a need to give anything up on Friday. This at best is only half the Truth. I suggest you find yourself an orthodox spiritual director or another person to help on your journey towards sanctity. Thank you for asking and may the Lord bless all your efforts at growing in holiness.
Peace and all good,
Thomas2
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mark_a
Guest
Thanks folks.
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
mark a:
A mortal sin requires grave matter, full knowledge and full consent. If you forget occasionally, you do not do so with full consent.
On the other hand if someone forgets on 50 consecutive Fridays??
Note that confession before Communion is only required if you are guilty of mortal sin.
A mortal sin requires grave matter, full knowledge and full consent. If you forget occasionally, you do not do so with full consent.
On the other hand if someone forgets on 50 consecutive Fridays??
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system
Guest
Sorry Thomas, but you are the one who’s misinformed about this. No need to accuse anyone of “false teaching”. The US Bishops removed the obligation for meatless Fridays in 1966. In fact they may have removed the obligation for Friday penance in general - see the discussion here, Canon Laws and all:
jimmyakin.org/2004/07/since_tomorrow_.html
A simple forgetting of something that is a voluntary practice anyway, does not seem to merit a discussion of spiritual direction or the journey toward sanctity. Simply asking one’s priest about it would be a simple thing to do.
This matter has been discussed in several threads on these forums over the last few days.
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
I agree with you that the Church teaches that Fridays are the week’s “Little Lent”, just as Sundays are each a “Little Easter”. Nevertheless, although Fridays are particularly appropriate for almsgiving, fasting, penance, and fraternal sharing, it is not sinful per se to fail to do all these things each and every Friday.
The precept of the Church is that we shall observe prescribed days of fasting and abstinence. In our archdiocese, that does not include every Friday, although it has included a number of “ember days” outside of Lent.
Are we in agreement, or do I misunderstand you? (And please do not suggest that our archbishop is not orthodox. Such a pronouncement would be calumny, and that is something that warrants mention in the confessional.)
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
Note
From the USCCB
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squirt
Guest
tcj:
Am I missing something, or is there something in the original poster’s message or profile that indicates that he is from the US???
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Thomas2
Guest
Please, I’ll refer you to Canons 1244, subsection 2 which reads thus:
"§2 Diocesan Bishops can proclaim special holydays or days of penance for their own dioceses or territories, but only for individual occasions. "
This obviously means that the prescription to forego abstaining from meat can be made by any Bishop for his diocese, but only for INDIVIDUAL OCCASIONS! That means that to proclaim a universal dispensation from meatless Fridays for all dioceses for all Fridays falls outside the prescriptions of these Canons. We cannot by Canon law be opted out of abstaining from meat on Friday by anyone other than the Holy See and they haven’t done so, therefore we are all still bound to abstain from meat or some other abstention on Fridays. Please see canon 1244 which reads thus,
Can. 1244 §1 Only the supreme ecclesiastical authority can establish, transfer or suppress holydays or days of penance which are applicable to the universal Church, without prejudice to the provisions of Can. 1246 §2." Please note that the only authority that can dispense us from this is the SUPREME ECCLESIASTICAL AUTHORITY - i.e. the Holy See - they are the ones who have to dispense us from days of penance. So until the Holy Father says I can forget about abstaining from meat on the Fridays of the year as my penance, I’ll just keep doing so and I’ll advise all others who ask me the same.
Peace and all good,
Thomas2
"§2 Diocesan Bishops can proclaim special holydays or days of penance for their own dioceses or territories, but only for individual occasions. "
This obviously means that the prescription to forego abstaining from meat can be made by any Bishop for his diocese, but only for INDIVIDUAL OCCASIONS! That means that to proclaim a universal dispensation from meatless Fridays for all dioceses for all Fridays falls outside the prescriptions of these Canons. We cannot by Canon law be opted out of abstaining from meat on Friday by anyone other than the Holy See and they haven’t done so, therefore we are all still bound to abstain from meat or some other abstention on Fridays. Please see canon 1244 which reads thus,
Can. 1244 §1 Only the supreme ecclesiastical authority can establish, transfer or suppress holydays or days of penance which are applicable to the universal Church, without prejudice to the provisions of Can. 1246 §2." Please note that the only authority that can dispense us from this is the SUPREME ECCLESIASTICAL AUTHORITY - i.e. the Holy See - they are the ones who have to dispense us from days of penance. So until the Holy Father says I can forget about abstaining from meat on the Fridays of the year as my penance, I’ll just keep doing so and I’ll advise all others who ask me the same.
Peace and all good,
Thomas2
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Thomas2
Guest
P.S. Please also see 1438 in the CCC!
P.P.S. Look, Jesus died for you - the least you can do is forego Burger King on Friday!
P.P.S. Look, Jesus died for you - the least you can do is forego Burger King on Friday!
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system
Guest
Thomas, I’m not a canon lawyer and I’m guessing you are not either.
Mr. Akin’s analysis (the article I provided in my earlier post) is thorough and informed, and it shows where the canon laws give the authority to the Bishops’ Conferences, and how the US Bishops set the regulation (in such a way that it is no longer binding under pain of sin, and would not need to be confessed if forgotten or even if deliberately missed). Did you read it?
J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
tcj:
Many have found his argument unconvincing. He quotes a canon that Bishops may substitute another penance. He then uses that to argue that since they permitted, but didn’t mandate, another penance no penance is mandated.
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jpusateri
Guest
Joe Kelley:
Quite correct. Not mandated. Encouraged.Many have found his argument unconvincing. He quotes a canon that Bishops may substitute another penance. He then uses that to argue that since they permitted, but didn’t mandate, another penance no penance is mandated.
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Lonevoice
Guest
Most Catholics think that Vatican II did away with the requirement of not eating meat on any Friday of the year. Most think it is now just Ash Wednesday and the Fridays of Lent that we cannot eat meat.
This is what the Code of Canon Law brought out in 1983 says about the matter:
Canon 1251
Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
Canon Law still requires that Catholics not eat meat on Fridays!
Of course, most Episcopal Conferences have determined that, instead of abstaining from meat, Catholics may perform an act of penance of their choosing. But, do you ever remember to abstain from a particular food or do some other penance on Fridays? And, at any rate, the main rule is still to abstain from meat on Fridays, the performance of another penance instead is an optional alternative.
It’s very interesting to note that the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (the United States’ Episcopal Conference) is currently debating whether to rescind the determination and require all Catholics to abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year. The Bishops are considering that a return to meatless Fridays for all Catholics would be of benefit because:
It is an expression of one’s Catholicity; and
In reparation for the grave sin of abortion.
This is what the Code of Canon Law brought out in 1983 says about the matter:
Canon 1251
Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
Canon Law still requires that Catholics not eat meat on Fridays!
Of course, most Episcopal Conferences have determined that, instead of abstaining from meat, Catholics may perform an act of penance of their choosing. But, do you ever remember to abstain from a particular food or do some other penance on Fridays? And, at any rate, the main rule is still to abstain from meat on Fridays, the performance of another penance instead is an optional alternative.
It’s very interesting to note that the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (the United States’ Episcopal Conference) is currently debating whether to rescind the determination and require all Catholics to abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year. The Bishops are considering that a return to meatless Fridays for all Catholics would be of benefit because:
It is an expression of one’s Catholicity; and
In reparation for the grave sin of abortion.
T
Thomas2
Guest
I’ll repeat this for those who must have missed it before -
Jesus DIED for you - the least you can do is forego Burger King on Fridays.
Peace and all good,
Thomas2
P.S. If you don’t feel the pinch of your penance, then you need more penance.
Jesus DIED for you - the least you can do is forego Burger King on Fridays.
Peace and all good,
Thomas2
P.S. If you don’t feel the pinch of your penance, then you need more penance.
S
system
Guest
Does that mean you’ve dropped your canon law line of argument (and BTW you still haven’t said what you thought about Mr. Akin’s explanation)?
Large type doesn’t make your suggestion any more convincing. It’s just your opinion and it doesn’t help to answer the original question.
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Thomas2
Guest
Excuse me TCJ,
But Canon Law isn’t just an opinion. I understand that you may be trying to forget about going to Confession and changing your practices on Fridays, but it really is something that God hopes you will make the assent of the will to. Submission to the Lord is a very good thing and may help you let go of your faults and misgivings. I also understand how difficult this can be. In my own faith journey, I didn’t find out that Friday was still maintained accordingly for a few years after my acceptance in the Church. Chalk that up to a battle on another day. So, I went to Confession and found out that most folks don’t know this stuff either. I’ve forgotten on several occassions and continue to Confess that when it happens. Shoot I’ve even offered up the Divine Mercy Chaplet as a penance for forgetting. I hope this helps you make the act of submission that your heart needs to help the little bit of yeast found in Confession to leaven your loafing loaf!
Peace and all good,
Thomas2
But Canon Law isn’t just an opinion. I understand that you may be trying to forget about going to Confession and changing your practices on Fridays, but it really is something that God hopes you will make the assent of the will to. Submission to the Lord is a very good thing and may help you let go of your faults and misgivings. I also understand how difficult this can be. In my own faith journey, I didn’t find out that Friday was still maintained accordingly for a few years after my acceptance in the Church. Chalk that up to a battle on another day. So, I went to Confession and found out that most folks don’t know this stuff either. I’ve forgotten on several occassions and continue to Confess that when it happens. Shoot I’ve even offered up the Divine Mercy Chaplet as a penance for forgetting. I hope this helps you make the act of submission that your heart needs to help the little bit of yeast found in Confession to leaven your loafing loaf!
Peace and all good,
Thomas2
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Timidity
Guest
For Americans, I whole-heartedly recommend *Penitential Practices *for Today’s Catholics, a 2000/2001 pamphet from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. The link I provide is the web-readable version. There’s also a pdf version available from the same site.
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