Men in church

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But, what should be the role of men in the church, parish community, etc.

We organize church festivals, serve hotdogs and move chairs.
What would you like to do in church? How do you see your role?
Please make some suggestions.
It is not about what we want to do! It is about having our masculinity honored and valued for something non-materialistic! As I said before, the “Feminine Genius” is completely disrespectful and ignorant of masculinity. Likewise the article posted by a member from Fr. Dwight Longnecker with his his idiotic diatribe about how men are beasts is also repulsive. What has the Church positively affirmed about masculinity that doesn’t involve going out and working yourself to death (its gets money for the collection…great)? A lot is ascribed specifically to women but aside from the priesthood virtually no trait is ascribed to men. This is why men cannot relate to the Catholic Church or have a hard time doing so.

About the only thing that was really going for men was the headship thing in a family. The Church decided to stop talking about it because apparently the submissive wife thing was too politically incorrect and some misinterpreted its meaning. Rather than stating what the correct interpretation was the Church just buried it from marriage ceremonies. That is what I mean about the man getting the boot.
 
Historically, the men (and some women) of Church brought the church back by initiating monastic movements. These were grass roots movements if I am not mistaken, and it seems that the time has come once again for some form of monasticism which will bring the whole church back to its roots.
 
Historically, the men (and some women) of Church brought the church back by initiating monastic movements. These were grass roots movements if I am not mistaken, and it seems that the time has come once again for some form of monasticism which will bring the whole church back to its roots.
There are 3rd orders & oblates in many areas.

How about a Men’s choir? (for those wo can sing)

The K of C has potential but it needs some revamping.
 
I recall that Scripture through the Prophet that says in the last days, seven women will take hold of one man and say to him, “We will eat our own food and wear our own clothes, just give us your name and take this shame away from us.” (pretty close).

I also recall some saints who were allowed to see Heaven said that there would be many more women in Heaven than men.

Why? I don’t know.
 
It is not about what we want to do! It is about having our masculinity honored and valued for something non-materialistic!
So we should be honored simply because we exist, or do we need to contribute “something non-materialistic” to the community?
Where do we start this process? Is there something about the masculine ethos that we need to articulate?
 
I think, this is the main problem. When did it become about our wants? Why does it have to be about what you prefer? The church has a need for volunteers, shouldn’t we attempt to fill the need?
How is this articulated and where? I always hear about giving money and serving hot dogs. Not too much more.
 
So we should be honored simply because we exist, or do we need to contribute “something non-materialistic” to the community?
Where do we start this process? Is there something about the masculine ethos that we need to articulate?
We should be honored because we are created in God’s image! There is no other reason on Earth that calls for more honor than that. Remind me again what “non-materialistic” thing women did to earn “Feminine Genius” from JPII? Sure they raised children but so did men. Men served as a role-model and father figure for kids to look up to. I don’t hear the statues wax poetry about that.

There is no masculine ethos because no one ever bothered to study / meditate on it. We can start the process by declaring a “Masculine Genius” and using it to correct the imbalance created by the “Feminine Genius.”
 
I think it starts with the boys, and very early.

First, (and it seems to have been borne out in a study) children whose father is a regular churchgoer, tend to be churchgoers as adults. Those whose fathers don’t, don’t, regardless of what the mother does or doesn’t do.

Second, and as retrograde as this will make me sound, I think it was a mistake to change boy servers’ cassocks to the unisex garb girl servers wear and, perhaps, to have girl servers at all. Call it sexist if you wish, but boys were once essentially drafted to be altar servers; to learn a very difficult set of Latin responses and the intricate choreograph of very exacting server movements. It was a disciplining thing, and a challenge; vastly different from the essentially listless role servers have now. I recall being told by the parish priest long ago that acolytes were once grown men who, in the catacombs, were to save the priest and the sacrament from violent hands, to the death if need be. He told us we were unlikely ever to have to rise to such an occasion, but that it was our duty all the same. As a boy I actually considered how I might save the priest and the Blessed sacrament from violent hands. I really did. Now, there was a manly charge and a heroic role for a boy!

Is any man now grown old enough to remember being assigned, in the seventh and eighth grades, to be a crossing guard? We had “Sam Browne” belts complete with a badge, and accompanied the younger kids across streets at school. We literally had the “authority”, or so we believed, and probably rightly, to stop traffic and escort the little kids across. And we were to protect them from all harm of any kind, not just from traffic. If some bully troubled them, we saw it our role to jump into protective action, and we sometimes really did.

When I was in Catholic grade school, we received one or both of two Catholic magazines each month. There were devotional articles in them and “comic book” like stories. One I recall vividly, about a young squire to a knight in the Crusades. Yes, it lacked today’s “political correctness” in a big way; no apologies for being Christian warriors. The adult male knights were quintessentially heroic, and the squire emulated their action and their devotions, sometimes besting the knights at least in the latter if not in the former. There were other serial stories like that. Some had to do with boys who had gone astray in some manner and who were brought back to virtue by virtuous and very manly boys, often with the aid of a priest. And yes, both moms and dads were objects of respect, even veneration in those stories. Neither were ever portrayed as bumblers or jokes.

How in the world did churchmen in our own day lose sight of that incredible exercise of psychology?

I am sometimes amused that when I was a server at the big events like Midnight Mass, it was considered a challenge to remain kneeling on a hard floor during Communion which was, then, an extremely long time, given that everybody in the parish went and there were no Eucharistic Ministers. Every muscle screamed for us to sit down, but we wouldn’t. Try it with nothing at all to lean on for even ten minutes, let alone fifteen, twenty. It was an offering, you see, to God; a challenge to holy heroism. Perhaps we couldn’t manage to roll in thorns or wear hair shirts, but we could kneel on aching knees while incense from the censers streamed up into our eyes or we struggled to hold a large candle steady the entire time. Perhaps we couldn’t be as pious as the girls, day to day. Perhaps we were always in trouble with the nuns where the girls almost never were. But we had our role, and it was to be heroes in the pinch.

In the processions, the very young boys wore red cassocks with plain white surplices. We then graduated to black, very priest-like cassocks with plain white suplices. Then we graduated to black cassocks with lace surplices. Teenage boys serving (and yes, they were there) wore white cassocks with purple cuffs and collars. It was almost like perservering to the point of finally being, what? Almost a monsignor? Rather similar to a bishop? It took years of service to merit that, but we did it. And even the biggest rascals treated it seriously.

I do not say that girls should have no role in liturgies. They once did, and never did I hear any complain of it, even though it was different. So, okay, girl servers are here to say. But can’t the boys at least have their own garb? Do they absolutely have to “dress like the girls”? Can they not be distinctively boys?

Boys really have no role anymore that’s peculiar to them. Most servers in most parishes now are girls to the near exclusion of boys. Boys have no “story” that is their own. No demanding task. No challenge. There’s no encouragement to the kind of heroism that makes a boy encourage himself to rise to the occasions of a holy and exemplary manhood.

Even modern church architecture is, in my mind, wrong for boys. So many of the modern designs are “return to the womb” architecture. That’s the exact wrong thing for a boy. Boys need grandeur; something bigger than themselves. Something to inspire awe. And it sure doesn’t hurt for their fathers to be awe-inspired either. It looks like that sort of thing is receding in church architecture, God be thanked, and not a moment too soon.

Once boys are lost to the Church, it’s extraordinarily difficult to get them back as men. And, the less the men are challenged to be holy men; holy to the point of heroism, the less likely they are to insist that their sons train to be holy men as well.

That’s my take. You can talk K of C or cooking hot dogs all you want, and I’m not putting it down. But it’s the boys. It’s the boys. It’s the boys.
 
Our parish has a very strong Knights of Columbus, and our men are very active in the parish. We also see a lot of boys actively involved. 🙂

There must be something about parading around with swords while dressed in feathers and finery that appeals to men. 😃

Any man over the age of 16 can be a Knight.
I never went beyond the 3d degree because, partly, I didn’t like feathers and play swords.

in my council, of the 400 members, only about 10% would show up for business meetings, and only about half of those (including the officer group) was very active. is your council different?
 
I think part of it is that one effect that the “Spirit of Vatican II” crowd tried to inject into everything was that the Church was all about “feelings.” Well this is all well and good, it’s been taken too far.
The Sacrament of Reconciliation is now a counseling session. The Our Father is now a time to hold hands with everyone. I feel like this is slowly eroding, and that this will increase male attendance/participation.
I find that individual parishes which focus on a more direct interpretation of the Council have more male participation.
 
I think it starts with the boys, and very early…
that’s not my experience, not by a long shot. I did everything one could do as a kid, then, like many, many others, fell away from the Church in my 20s (college, service days, career). but I’m back, and its not because of my experience as an altar server, or the architecture, or the attire, that’s all long ago and far away. if anything, it was because of the KofC, an organization that I’m not overly fond of.
 
I never went beyond the 3d degree because, partly, I didn’t like feathers and play swords.
I have long thought they ought to update the garb. More Spartan, perhaps. More simple and dignified. Epaulets maybe instead of that gargantuan satin hood. Trim down the chapeau. But they didn’t ask me. 🙂
 
I think, this is the main problem. When did it become about our wants? Why does it have to be about what you prefer? The church has a need for volunteers, shouldn’t we attempt to fill the need?
my council did whatever the pastor needed. that often meant hotdogs and organizing festivals, blood drives, etc… there’s an enormous amount of charitable work as well that the KofC doesn’t publicize, because there’s no need to impress nonmembers.
 
I never went beyond the 3d degree because, partly, I didn’t like feathers and play swords.

in my council, of the 400 members, only about 10% would show up for business meetings, and only about half of those (including the officer group) was very active. is your council different?
Ours is very busy and active - they fundraise for a variety of good causes (they put on dinners and dances and things like that to raise money for St. Vincent de Paul, and for Elizabeth House, and things like that) and they sponsor sports nights for kids who don’t get to join sports leagues for various reasons, and of course they provide the honour guard for the Bishop whenever he comes, and they are very involved with That Man is You Bible study programs - and the God Squad (the street patrol for religious processions) is made up mostly of Knights who are also police officers.
 
I have long thought they ought to update the garb. More Spartan, perhaps. More simple and dignified. Epaulets maybe instead of that gargantuan satin hood. Trim down the chapeau. But they didn’t ask me. 🙂
they never asked me either, that stuff would be cringe-worthy, except — that’s 4th degree stuff, and they tend to be military vets, so I give them a pass.
 
that’s not my experience, not by a long shot. I did everything one could do as a kid, then, like many, many others, fell away from the Church in my 20s (college, service days, career). but I’m back, and its not because of my experience as an altar server, or the architecture, or the attire, that’s all long ago and far away. if anything, it was because of the KofC, an organization that I’m not overly fond of.
Many fall away in their youth, but return. Interestingly, a great number do upon marrying and having children. Can one truly say their childhood had nothing at all to do with that, when childhood experience is acknowledged to be so important in other ways? Pretty counter-intuitive, I would say.

Nobody would say, and certainly I wouldn’t, that there aren’t a number of reasons why men return to the Church or even join the Church having never been Catholics as children or as young persons. In my area, which is in the Bible Belt, we have a lot of converts, most of whom are converts from fundamentalist sects. Few are from mainline protestant churches. Why is that? Well, perhaps because fundamentalism is demanding in a way that mainline churches are not. Catholicism may not seem terribly demanding to some, but it really is if one is serious about it.
 
Ours is very busy and active - they fundraise for a variety of good causes (they put on dinners and dances and things like that to raise money for St. Vincent de Paul, and for Elizabeth House, and things like that) and they sponsor sports nights for kids who don’t get to join sports leagues for various reasons, and of course they provide the honour guard for the Bishop whenever he comes, and they are very involved with That Man is You Bible study programs - and the God Squad (the street patrol for religious processions) is made up mostly of Knights who are also police officers.
happy to hear that level of participation.

for any readers, this is a slice of life for the KofC, every active parish council gets involved in parish and community in many, many ways. much depends on the initiative of individual officers (they inevitably make you an officer if you step up to volunteer). the pomp is rare and no big deal.

when I was a member, I enjoyed the companionship of good Catholic men and the long hours put in for good causes.
 
Interested in others opinions as to why there are so little men in attendance of religious events, obviously this may differ from country to country, I am just curious.
Hippie priest from the 60’s feminized Jesus then I read the bible Jesus was and is as manly as they come. Amen
 
How is this articulated and where? I always hear about giving money and serving hot dogs. Not too much more.
I can only use my parish as an example.

Readers for Mass: Coordinated by a man, he trains the volunteers, makes schedules, and is always the backup reader,

Sacristan and Altar Server Coordinator: Coordinated by a man, he trains the volunteers, makes the schedules, makes sure everything is where it should be, and everyone is where they should be. Whichever Mass I’ve attended, this man is always there.

Usher Coordinator: Coordinated by a man, he trains the volunteers, makes the schedules, is always the backup usher.

Altar Guild: Coordinated by a woman. Somehow, men do not want these jobs. Clean linens, clean church 3X year, arrange flowers for the Altar, Mary and Joseph’s statues.

Adult Education Coordinator: This is me, I’m a female. I do the research into Bible studies, and organize our possible curriculum for the Fall and Spring. Tomorrow, I meet with Father about our possible options. With his approval, I’ll email the participants, and they vote on what we will be doing in the Fall and the Spring of next year.

Parish Council: Right now, all men. Two womens’ service just ended.

Parish Finance Committee: All men.

Cemetery Committee: All men. We extremely blessed to have a parish cemetery.

At many of the events we have, I’ve washed dishes , wiped down tables, put chairs away, etc. with many a man from my parish.
 
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