Mennonite jailed over opposition to death penalty

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As a Catholic (or non-Catholic, as the case may be)—how would you handle this if you were the investigator?
I understand her position of not wanting to help the prosecution. At the same time, she’s not helping the defendant, either. She’s basically put the case in stasis–almost, and forgive me for using the term, in limbo.

apnews.com

Mennonite investigator who won't testify goes back to jail

A defense investigator in a Colorado death penalty case has been jailed indefinitely for refusing to testify for prosecutors.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
If “She cannot be a cog in the machinery of death,” then she should not have taken a job as a investigator for the defense.

I see no problem with the court response. She in turn is entitled to remain in jail without testifying.
 
Theo520 said:
She in turn is entitled to remain in jail without testifyin
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Seriously?

Why not just release her of the obligation to do something that violates her conscience, or even just fire her?

Our country has a serious problem with locking people up for no reason whatsoever.

Do you think it’s okay that the US incarcerates more people than any Nation on earth? Even North Korea and China don’t imprison their people the way we do… We’re jail-crazy here and it’s utterly ridiculous and unacceptable.

Americas entire penal system is a disgrace.

Jails and prisons which violate basic human dignity.

Draconian prison sentences.

Nonsensical reasons for locking people up.

Financial incentives to build jails and prisons.

Overuse of an obsolete form of punishment (the death penalty)

The list could go on, and on, and on. It’s shameful.
 
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Good points.

I have to wonder if she might actually help the defendant’s case if she testified. By refusing to testify for the reasons she gives, she is sort of supporting the claim that the defense was indeed competent, and therefore the verdict was well-founded.
 
Spyridon said:
Why not just release her of the obligation to do something that violates her conscience, or even just fire her?

Our country has a serious problem with locking people up for no reason whatsoever.
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She worked for the defense, why do you suggest firing her for work already completed? How do you envision a retroactive firing would work, against a defense investigator?

Our country has the rule of law and we’ve deemed it appropriate to use detention at times when people chose not to comply with legal judicial requests. It’s hardly “for no reason whatsoever”

The rest of your comments seemed a deflection of the specific case.
 
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Theo520 said:
It’s hardly “for no reason whatsoever”
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I simply do not see how refusing to do something which may end with a life being snuffed out as something worth depriving a person of liberty over.

I disagree with the decision to jail her in the strongest terms.

Move her off the case and replace her? Fire her? Fine her? Sure, go ahead.

Imprison her? Absolutely not.

Do you feel fine knowing we imprison more of our people than China, Russia, or Korea?
 
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Spyridon said:
I simply do not see how refusing to do something which may end with a life being snuffed out as something worth depriving a person of liberty over.

I disagree with the decision to jail her in the strongest terms.

Move her off the case and replace her? Fire her? Fine her? Sure, go ahead.

Imprison her? Absolutely not.
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I was making the point it “wasn’t for no reason whatsoever”. Of course we can disagree and advocate that detention is not the right judicial response.

Personally I’m against locking up journalists who decline to reveal their sources, but I also get it’s not a protected relationship under current law.

I respect her sacrifice for her beliefs, as I do a journalist who chooses to remain in detention rather than reveal their information.
 
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Do you honestly think an older medically frail woman should be in jail over not violating her conscience?

How would you like a Catholic baker refusing to bake a wedding cake for gays being locked up @Theo520?

“Attorney Mari Newman said Lindecrantz had been sick all morning and needs medical care. He noted that Lindecrantz could have been allowed to remain free while she appeals the contempt order.”

How do you feel about the US imprisoning more people than China?

Have you yourself or a loved one ever experienced the nightmarish US penal system?

If I lived close to these people, I would join with the Mennonites and sing hymns with them in protest.
 
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Your complete argument is from emotion, which is telling.

If she is medically frail, we can expect accommodation or a backlash on the judge in question. The jail is obligated to provide any needed medical care.

Please stop with the hyperbole on our penal system. If you think it’s that bad, then it should be fixed for all and not just for her. I think she is quite safe, just detained. She’s not in max security sharing a cell with Bubba the degenerate.
 
You seem woefully uninformed about the state of US prisons and jails.

Lol, you actually expect a US county jail to provide adequate medical attention?

Get real.

Go read some of the thousands of cases of US jails letting inmates die from lack of medical care.

The US prison system is an absolute disgrace, a crime against human dignity, and is in dire need of immediate and total reform.
 
Testifying in court, even if for the prosecution, does not seem to me to be the same thing as helping them execute somebody.
The court has the right to expect that witnesses with relevant knowledge should testify when called upon.

However.

If she cannot in good conscience do this, then she should stick to her guns.

But.

In that case she should not be holding her current position, since it is clear her conscience interferes with her ability to do the required work. She should resign for reasons of conscience.
 
“Go and learn what this means: I desire Mercy, not sacrifice.”
 
Spyridon said:
You seem woefully uninformed about the state of US prisons and jails.

Lol, you actually expect a US county jail to provide adequate medical attention?

Get real.

Go read some of the thousands of cases of US jails letting inmates die from lack of medical care.

The US prison system is an absolute disgrace, a crime against human dignity, and is in dire need of immediate and total reform.
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I think you are the one who is uninformed, I’ve worked in the past with the judicial system, helping felons re-enter society via a halfway house, and with criminal youth held in detention. Though medical mistakes are made, jails are very aware of their responsibilities in this area.
 
Spyridon said:
Our country has a serious problem with locking people up for no reason whatsoever.

Do you think it’s okay that the US incarcerates more people than any Nation on earth? Even North Korea and China don’t imprison their people the way we do… We’re jail-crazy here and it’s utterly ridiculous and unacceptable.

Americas entire penal system is a disgrace.

Jails and prisons which violate basic human dignity.

Draconian prison sentences.
Click to expand...
This is true. The problem in the US is we lock people up for non violent crimes while letting violent criminals roam free. We jail more of our people than any other and yet we are the land of the free? It’s a joke.

But in this case the woman isn’t being very rational. She participated in a case years ago and is refusing to answer questions about her work back then. She is essentially refusing to participate in the justice system. It isn’t really any different than sovereign citizens. What do you do with a person like this? Maybe house arrest would be more appropriate.
 
I’ll have the same response to this I did to the woman in Kentucky who wouldn’t sign a marriage license for gays.

If there’s any chance that fulfilling job requirements will violate your beliefs, find a different line of work. The US is a secular and functionally atheist country. It’s laws will not reflect Christian values. Your faith will not protect you.
 
Spyridon said:
40.png
Theo520:
She in turn is entitled to remain in jail without testifyin
Click to expand...
Seriously?

Why not just release her of the obligation to do something that violates her conscience, or even just fire her?

Our country has a serious problem with locking people up for no reason whatsoever.

Do you think it’s okay that the US incarcerates more people than any Nation on earth? Even North Korea and China don’t imprison their people the way we do… We’re jail-crazy here and it’s utterly ridiculous and unacceptable.

Americas entire penal system is a disgrace.

Jails and prisons which violate basic human dignity.

Draconian prison sentences.

Nonsensical reasons for locking people up.

Financial incentives to build jails and prisons.

Overuse of an obsolete form of punishment (the death penalty)

The list could go on, and on, and on. It’s shameful.
Click to expand...
Let’s be clear about the issue. She’s in jail for Contempt of Court. When a person is found to be in contempt of court, they spend the night in jail.

Witnesses are called to testify in Criminal proceedings and are called to tell the truth.

The problem here is this is a very slippery slope. This person is being asked to testify regarding the knowledge of the defendant’s guilt or innocence. If this witness is allowed to purposeful not answer a question that is meant to be used to prove someone’s guilt, then what would stop a person from purposefully refuse to answer a question that could be used to prove someone’s innocence?

Our criminal justice system is actually brilliantly designed.

BTW - regarding the fact that we incarcerate more people than any other nation, this is a good article from the Washington Post. A lot of it has to do with how Americans responded to the crime spike of the 1960s and 1970s. We enacted a number of minimum sentences, three-strikes laws, etc. Also, the US (esp in the South) has politicized sheriff’s departments, who run for office on tough stances on crime.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...han-any-other-country/?utm_term=.6177ec580bf6
 
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JanSobieskiIII said:
It’s laws will not reflect Christian values. Your faith will not protect you.
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But even if they did reflect Christian values–and I’m not agreeing that they don’t–even if they did reflect Christian values, people still need to abide by the law.
 
Spyridon said:
House arrest, a fine, and fire her.

That would be much more appropriate.
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So you think house arrest is appropriate for “Contempt of Court”? I think the court is trying to be more persuasive that witnesses need to follow the law.

Why do you keep repeating “fire her” for work that was completed some time ago? Even if the court could fire her from her defense job, I think that action raises more significant problems than a couple nights in jail. This medically frail woman would then lose her healthcare benefits, and income - something far more punitive.
 
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