Mental Illness, Disability and Religious Life

[BarbaraTherese]

I have been noticing how many suffering MI or some form of disability have wanted to enter religious life but found that their health presented impediments. I have long been convinced that a form of religious life could be set up for those who do suffer disabilities and intitially as living in one’s own home with regular contact via internet and meetings…with a longer range view to sufferers living in individual units or hermitages with a shared formal prayer life and community life - both in the interests of the spiritual as well as support. This would not be necessarily an enclosed way of life. There would be a Rule of Life which would including modifications and guidelines for the bearing of any disability under the various presenting problems that may occur - both on the part of the sufferer and the community. There is something that keeps coming back into my mind like the song that one cannot get out of one’s head and reportedly said by St. Bernadette who had commented she must get about her vocation. When asked what this vocation was, she replied: “Being ill” (she suffered with asthma). We used to have in The Church a beautiful apostolate (rather than ministry) called “The Apostolate of the Sick” in which sufferings and difficulties were striven to be borne as well as could be possible and with prayer and difficulties etc. offered for The Church. It was considered to be an Apostolate of Prayer.

I am not made of the ingredients of a foundress whatever such may be…but I thought I would share my thoughts anyway. Here in Australia anyway, disabilities are supported by an excellent (mainly free or very cheap) medical, medication and pension scheme which does allow one to live a life if a frugal and simple one devoid (thank goodness) of any sort of focused consumerism as income is too low for this, while allowing one to live relatively well if one lives carefully. I am aware that living with a disabling condition is far more difficult in other countries.

Blessings this Easter…Barb

 

[brigid12]

In the US its only if a person has enough proof of 100% disability (or almost) is a person able to get/apply for disability income. Then, once it gets to you and that can be a matter of years, it only takes care of a totally subsistence living and would need to be combined with Food Stamps, Welfare, and charitable programs to be livable. Even then medical care is not included (unless you can get a charitable program for that). If a person can type or take parking tickets or … then they couldn’t get disability income. Only the most severe mental illnesses are going to get it - those that are institutionalized anyway.
It sounds like what you are talking about, for some countries anyway, would be a cross between a second and third order. It sounds like it might be a viable option someplaces. Maybe somebody of the “foundress or founder” type will see your post.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

In the US its only if a person has enough proof of 100% disability (or almost) is a person able to get/apply for disability income. Then, once it gets to you and that can be a matter of years, it only takes care of a totally subsistence living and would need to be combined with Food Stamps, Welfare, and charitable programs to be livable. Even then medical care is not included (unless you can get a charitable program for that). If a person can type or take parking tickets or … then they couldn’t get disability income. Only the most severe mental illnesses are going to get it - those that are institutionalized anyway.
It sounds like what you are talking about, for some countries anyway, would be a cross between a second and third order. It sounds like it might be a viable option someplaces. Maybe somebody of the “foundress or founder” type will see your post.

Hi again Brigid:wave: …I am very much aware that we are singularly blessed here in Australia with our social security programs. Singularly blessed!!! I am more than capable for example of say working in an Office, but at 62yrs I am regarded as unemployable though of course our laws do prevent anyone from actually stating such officially. By going to school two days week my pension grows by $140 fortnight…prior to being a student, I took in ironing 6 days week, which kept things here afloat (I live a specific lifestyle under private vows) and I had to turn people away who wanted their ironing done as there simply were not enough hours in the day. The basic disability pension is around $450 fortnight (mine grows to roughly $600 fortnight).
I did some years ago attend our local Centrelink Office (social security) and offered to work in their offices for free to earn my pension. This was laughed at! Prior to illness I had a career as a private secretary/personal assistant to some quite well known here executives…so with a brush up course (which I could do at school) in office procedures and computer literacy I could still work in an office, even part time.
There are simple ways of earning money here with a little imagination and also we have sheltered workshops where people with disabilities can work at various tasks and earn a wage…and with simple and frugal living under a vow of actual poverty I am sure a type of religious community could survive and manage to keep a roof over heads, pay the bills and not starve. There are endless opportunties too to take up a ministry inside The Church and even missionary in nature in that the ministry takes in the general community in some way. I would love too to see habits around the streets again which we never see nowadays - the habit evangelized without one saying a word.

I seem to keep coming across here and there women (mainly on the internet) who do suffer some form of disability who have been rejected by religious orders because of it and hence the notion that a type of religious life for such is not at all non feasible. And I thought too that if I put my concept onto the internet someone may pick up on it. It does astound me that many enclosed communities whose members are not earning any sort of regular weekly wage do survive financially - The Lord watches over them surely. I know I never lived so well, nor ate so well - quite literally - as when I was in monastic life…donations of money and food kept on coming. And I have truly never lived in such grand accommodation for which monastic life especially is well known I think.

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[Cloisters]

I don’t know what Canon Law says specifically about mental illness and religious life, but I do know that if a religious becomes mentally ill during temp profession, the community is obligated to take care of them.

The current code was promulgated in 1983, and here in 2008 we know so much more about mental illness, I think the issue should be revisited. Bipolar disorder, etc., is to the brain what diabetes is to the pancreas.

If a person develops a mental illness after temp or final profession, how is that different from their having it before entrance? It was in the person’s genes to begin with.

I personally know a married couple where the bride is schizophrenic and the groom is bipolar. The more stable their environment, the less they exhibit symptoms. (DUH).

The objections religious communities often have regarding the mentally ill are the following:

1. No vocation to begin with; religious life is just a fantasy for them.
2. In religious life we are faced with our faults and shortcomings. Only a novice mistress/master with the greatest tact and gentleness can lead someone to give up a fault. And how do we know that a “fault” isn’t actually a part of the mental illness? Then great harm is done to the person because of the process of formation.
3. If a person goes through that painful process, it may exacerbate the condition, and they will end up hurting people.
4. Life in community is very similar to marriage’s “the two shall become one.” The religious in community will get to know you better than your parents because they know you through God.
5. To accommodate the mentally ill would require an actual charism. In other orders, it would not be compatible with regular religious life. The formation directors would almost have to have some kind of special training with the mentally ill (psychologist, psychiatrist, psych nurse, etc.).
6. There would just about have to be “neurotypicals” within the community to help maintain balance. My only fear would be that the NTs would try to commandeer the leadership and somehow abuse it.

From the sound of it, the proposed charism–which is what you’ve described–would have core religious with associates. It also sounds very similar to our proposed Hermits of Blessed Herman Contractus and Leonie Martin:

cloisters.tripod.com/blherman/

Another option–and again, I don’t know if this would work because of Canon Law–are claustral oblates.

cloisters.tripod.com/claustraloblates/

Just my thoughts, and I hope I have communicated efficently.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[BarbaraTherese]

If anyone picked up on the concept, there is no need to seek status as a community of religious life formally, rather perhaps a pious association which would side step any problems presented by canon law - rather reminds me of St. Vincent de Paul I think it was who wanted to side step Canon Law so his nuns would not be enclosed…mind you I am not at all familiar with canon law. Not only this, the concept needs to be tested ‘hands on’ and were it me, I would commence on a live out basis, rather than live in, with regular meetings and ease into things if it seemed viable and an option.
No reason why a group of people suffering mental illness cannot get together for mutual support re their illness and spirituality. It becomes perhaps necessary to think outside squares where necessity will become the mother of invention as it were.

1. No vocation to begin with; religious life is just a fantasy for them.

To make such a sweeping statement whoever did, is outright stigma. It is the total dismissal of a sufferer and with considerable disdain and arrogance. But then an “us and them” mentality re sufferers of mental illness does exist in The Church often for one…especially if one wants to join the cows in the paddocks of the sacred cows
It rather reminds me of a very funny poem I learnt as a child “Godolphin Horne” - a very funny poem with a lot of truth in it if one thinks about it.
poemhunter.com/poem/godolphin-horne/

1. In religious life we are faced with our faults and shortcomings. Only a novice mistress/master with the greatest tact and gentleness can lead someone to give up a fault. And how do we know that a “fault” isn’t actually a part of the mental illness? Then great harm is done to the person because of the process of formation.

There may be some truth in the above but to dismiss all and any person who suffers a mental illness is far too sweeping to me and betrays misunderstanding of mental illness.
I do know of people who have left a community and the noviciate and marked for life adversely by the experience…and they do not suffer mental illness.

1. If a person goes through that painful process, it may exacerbate the condition, and they will end up hurting

…a ‘what if, what if, what if’ type of reasoning and also betrays misunderstanding of mental illness.

1. Life in community is very similar to marriage’s “the two shall become one.” The religious in community will get to know you better than your parents because they know you through God.

Dont understand the point in this statement.

1. To accommodate the mentally ill would require an actual charism. In other orders, it would not be compatible with regular religious life. The formation directors would almost have to have some kind of special training with the mentally ill (psychologist, psychiatrist, psych nurse, etc.).

Again it is not necessarily so that regular religious life would not be compatible with the presence of mental illness and again betrays lack of understanding of the condition and formation directors would not need to be trained mental health workers. We have teachers, doctors, lawyers even judges and magistrates who suffer mental illness. In the main, I think, The Church’s thinking and those of many within The Church, has not moved with the dramatic and positive changes that has come with modern medicine and medications re mental illness. The Church and many within The Church, are still stuck somewhere close to the 16th. century (a decidedly extreme statement for emphasis) re insight, understanding, of mental illness.

1. There would just about have to be “neurotypicals” within the community to help maintain balance. My only fear would be that the NTs would try to commandeer the leadership and somehow abuse it.

Certainly in any such imaginary community the members would need to have functioned in the general community for a period of years without the illness being problematic, otherwise at this point in our social development I think probably it would invite some sort of disaster.

From the sound of it, the proposed charism–which is what you’ve described–would have core religious with associates. It also sounds very similar to our proposed Hermits of Blessed Herman Contractus and Leonie Martin:

The reason I mentioned hermit type accommodation or the ability to live separately at times is because I know that many sufferers of MI do find living alone works for them, provided they are not totally isolated. Separate accommodation enables one to seclude oneself and especially if unwell - again without isolating oneself…this seems to work as a theraputic tool.

The various concepts you have presented above (not necessarily your own) do betray a lack of understanding of mental illness and this does seem to be present in our Catholic Church especially. If sufferers of mental illness can be very successful professionals, then the concepts presented above have holes.

Blessings…Barb

 

[brigid12]

Hi, Barb!

This idea of yours seems like one who’s time has come (maybe not in all countries, but certainly in some and more will come). I use to do some nursing-type work in psychiatric facilities besides trying to deal, as you know, with recurrent Depression, and from what I’ve seen/experienced just this sort of pious association/lay order/…sounds wonderful. Stability, seclusion in accomodations while not isolating and also allowing for spiritual growth within community - :extrahappy: Wow! Not only therapeutic but also truly charitable and God-centered. This was an idea that came not only from your human mind but also from Divine Grace, IMHO! Now, your priest needs to hear of it, I would think. Maybe it could start at a nearby parish, although not limited to only the parishioners. Hopefully a canon lawyer, either on this forum or another, will weigh in - also a psychiatrist (I think you may want to include Catholic psychiatric nurses or Catholic Psychiatric Techs. in this). I will certainly pray for it!

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting Cloisters:
From the sound of it, the proposed charism–which is what you’ve described–would have core religious with associates. It also sounds very similar to our proposed Hermits of Blessed Herman Contractus and Leonie Martin:
cloisters.tripod.com/blherman/

Just had a look at your website. An interesting concept in that the lifestyle does make ‘unusual’ adjustments for the peculiarities of the particular illness involved. And yes, such ‘unsual’ adjustments is what I had in mind re a community for sufferers of MI. To be honest, I have not given it a great deal of thought, I simply am quite sure that if there were others interested a form of religious type life would not be impossible to establish. It could even be ‘attached’ to an established Order willing to provide leadership. I do know that the Sisters of The Good Shepherd when they set up their contemplative division, then called The Magdalen Sisters, did appoint leadership from among the active Sisters…the Magdalen Sisters in those days were from amongst the girls they cared for, often reformed prostitutes they had been caring for. Nowadays, their contemplative division is open to all and known as Contemplative Sisters of the GS and leadership comes from their own ranks.
It would become, I should think, a matter of being willing to set out on an untrodden road and to be willing to change and make adjustments as they became apparent. If it was God’s Will it would survive despite any and all difficulties - and if not, then it would cease to exist.
I don’t think ( as I said I am not very familiar with Canon Law) there is anything to prevent a group of people getting together and even living under the one roof for the purposes of mutual support including the spiritual following a ‘rule of life’. The ‘problem’ seems to arise once one wants to call oneself a religious or a nun under canonical vows - then Canon Law steps in with strict regulations.

Blessings - Barb

 

[Cloisters]

I’m not exactly parroting what a novice mistress told me, but those are the underlying reasons why the MI are not admitted to religious life. The mainstream religious orders are not suited to the MI–it would be far too rough on them. Any order that accommodated the MI would have to be founded in today’s world–it would have to be a charism.

The marriage analogy was incomplete, and for that I apologize. Just as the two become one, so the religious community’s cohesive spirit is very similar. Anything afflicting one member is going to afflict everyone, just as one spouse’s illness brings the lover to tears.

You sound like you’ve got a plan. Just start, and if there’s an emerging charism, it’ll let you know.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[TOP]

MI along with my brush with cancer is the elephant in the room at my house. Not something I can even speak about without being cut short, diverted, or even ignored. It would be nice to retreat to a community like this occasionally, to relate, to be spiritually guided without the stigma that “bi-polars tend to be religous because of their illness” I once heard from a Dr. who debunked my zeal in the faith. Heaven help you in spiritual warfare when diagnosed with an MI. I learned the hard way with out guidence as I was pawned to the Dr.s and back as religous where incapable of decisive action and Dr.s could not grasp the spiritual struggle. Obedience directed me to a consecration to Jesus through Mary that ended it for the most part. Spiritual growth in the faith when challenged with a MI is a lonely, untrusted witness to what is accomplished and difficult road, that for me has brought me to the garden in agony along side my Lord. Tim

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Hi, Barb!

This idea of yours seems like one who’s time has come (maybe not in all countries, but certainly in some and more will come). I use to do some nursing-type work in psychiatric facilities besides trying to deal, as you know, with recurrent Depression, and from what I’ve seen/experienced just this sort of pious association/lay order/…sounds wonderful. Stability, seclusion in accomodations while not isolating and also allowing for spiritual growth within community - :extrahappy: Wow! Not only therapeutic but also truly charitable and God-centered. This was an idea that came not only from your human mind but also from Divine Grace, IMHO! Now, your priest needs to hear of it, I would think. Maybe it could start at a nearby parish, although not limited to only the parishioners. Hopefully a canon lawyer, either on this forum or another, will weigh in - also a psychiatrist (I think you may want to include Catholic psychiatric nurses or Catholic Psychiatric Techs. in this). I will certainly pray for it!

Goodness, Brigid…you have me all organizedhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_25.gif Knowing you suffer depression and that you have worked on psyche wards, you would understand that probably only other sufferers insight and understand the depth of suffering that can be involved…here is a whole ministry and an increasingly important one with wards here full of mainly (approx.) 16 - 25year olds. The other thing that has struck me about psyche wards is just how important to patients their Faith is and in the main psych patients are people of Faith.
I think this way…if The Lord sends someone knocking on my door as it were, then I will give it more thought. And if you knew me in person, you would realize such as I do not approach my parish priest…and oh my never my Archbishop…with such grandiose notions. I am the most casual and laid back type of Aussie you could ever come across and it is simply my nature - the way God has constructed me. Also, I very deliberately and with focus keep a low profile in The Church on all levels.
Nope, not me! I have thought things through sufficiently to know there is a way, should others knock on my door, to get it all off the ground without seeking permissions of heirarchy at any level. If it ever happened, once it was a proven viable - then I would put my cards on the table to those necessary.
I have thought too that it could all start off as a cyberspace community only at least initially and see where that goes. I am convinced that the internet is only just beginning to be utilized as a tool for evangelizing and all sorts of matters spiritual.
The first step is others knocking at my door…that is my ‘deal’ with The Lord.:bigyikes: I have put my concept out onto the internet, the next move if there is to be one is not mine. In other words, the ball is in the court and not my play either.
I simply feel not call to be a foundress; however, if others knocked on my door I would need to consider to my mind that despite my feelings, I may be called to do so. It scares me silly!!!
The truth of the matter is that all the Catholic women I know who suffer mental illness have left The Church completely and due to the treatment they received from The Church. I was advised by Public Mental Health to leave The Church due to the treatment I was receiving and to join the Anglican Church who apparently are much better informed re mental illness and with a better attitude towards MI. When I told PMH I could not do that, I was accused of having an irresponsible attitude towards my illness. That is all past tense now due to my (private) psychiatrist who has a really good grasp of what my Faith and religion mean to me…and she is athiest. She also knows I take a very responsible stance towards my illness.
Your prayers are very much appreciated … very much!

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

MI along with my brush with cancer is the elephant in the room at my house. Not something I can even speak about without being cut short, diverted, or even ignored. It would be nice to retreat to a community like this occasionally, to relate, to be spiritually guided without the stigma that “bi-polars tend to be religous because of their illness” I once heard from a Dr. who debunked my zeal in the faith. Heaven help you in spiritual warfare when diagnosed with an MI. I learned the hard way with out guidence as I was pawned to the Dr.s and back as religous where incapable of decisive action and Dr.s could not grasp the spiritual struggle. Obedience directed me to a consecration to Jesus through Mary that ended it for the most part. Spiritual growth in the faith when challenged with a MI is a lonely, untrusted witness to what is accomplished and difficult road, that for me has brought me to the garden in agony along side my Lord. Tim

Thank you very much for sharing, Tim! Like most with mental illness you have journeyed the road of deep and intense suffering and on many levels, not only the mental…and indeed we reflect Jesus in the garden in mental distress so much that He sweated blood which medicine now knows is a distinct possibility under intense stress.
The concept of a community such as I have imagined having accommodations for those wishing to stay only for a transition period short or long, is an excellent one and as a sufferer too, I realize what a blessing it would be in the difficult times, especially to be able to wander over to another little hermitage and share a cuppa with a fellow sufferer…to be able to get together for times of prayer in a little humble community chapel and share recreation times with all on the site in a humble Chapter House…and all understanding what it means to suffer mental illness.
In the first few years I was here my next door neighbour (good Catholic) suspicious of my spirituality and devotion to The Church asked my mother ( now dec’d) how long I had been religious (he was convinced my Faith and spirituality reflected illness). Mum replied that I had been religious since I first opened my eyes and my very first word was God. Now this set my neighbour back on his heels well and truly…and Mum was expressing considerable poetic licence as my mother.
So I am aware of the suspicion of some anyway ‘good Catholics’ (all levels) that Faith and spirituality is merely an expression of pathology.

I am sorry, Tim, that you have had to suffer as you have! I am sorry that you are unable to freely discuss your illness in your own situation. I was talking to a priest a few weeks ago and mentioned a TV program on MI and asked him if he had seen it and this is what he said “I did think about watching it, but then I thought I really dont want to know about that sort of stuff”…I am so happy I am not at all a violent person or Father would have copped one on the nose.

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I’m not exactly parroting what a novice mistress told me, but those are the underlying reasons why the MI are not admitted to religious life. The mainstream religious orders are not suited to the MI–it would be far too rough on them. Any order that accommodated the MI would have to be founded in today’s world–it would have to be a charism.

The marriage analogy was incomplete, and for that I apologize. Just as the two become one, so the religious community’s cohesive spirit is very similar. Anything afflicting one member is going to afflict everyone, just as one spouse’s illness brings the lover to tears.

You sound like you’ve got a plan. Just start, and if there’s an emerging charism, it’ll let you know.

Blessings,
Cloisters

Hi again Cloisters…What religious orders are failing to understand is that with modern medications especially, a sufferer of mental illness can be in every way as chronically normal (thanks to Reen12 for that very funny term!) as anyone. My own psychiatrist fully supported my entry into monastic life - the one condition they made was I could not take my medication which was really an invitation to disaster. I left the Order for a few reasons and the fact that I was having a dreadful battle due to the lack of medication was one of them. Truth is that Mother General really wanted me to enter (she resides in England) but my novice mistress was convinced I was a fraud, gave me a very hard time indeed and made matters worse.
I have now been totally well for near on 10 years and if I tell people I suffer MI, they think I am joking. At school (in jest) they reckon I am faking a MI to collect the disability pension.

The marriage analogy was incomplete, and for that I apologize. Just as the two become one, so the religious community’s cohesive spirit is very similar. Anything afflicting one member is going to afflict everyone, just as one spouse’s illness brings the lover to tears.

Interesting, it brough to mind St. Therese and the fact that her community was totally unaware of the depth of her holiness. What you have stated does sound wonderful and it is an ideal for sure, I can’t help but wonder if it works in practise. Certainly having been in a convent in my teens and monastic life in my forties, I know the difference between what is on paper and the reality of matters. Community life can be hard…it can also be wonderful. Married life the same, living alone the same.

You sound like you’ve got a plan. Just start, and if there’s an emerging charism, it’ll let you know.

Thank you…by now you may have read my other posts.

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[TOP]

Thank you very much for sharing, Tim! Like most with mental illness you have journeyed the road of deep and intense suffering and on many levels, not only the mental…and indeed we reflect Jesus in the garden in mental distress so much that He sweated blood which medicine now knows is a distinct possibility under intense stress.
The concept of a community such as I have imagined having accommodations for those wishing to stay only for a transition period short or long, is an excellent one and as a sufferer too, I realize what a blessing it would be in the difficult times, especially to be able to wander over to another little hermitage and share a cuppa with a fellow sufferer…to be able to get together for times of prayer in a little humble community chapel and share recreation times with all on the site in a humble Chapter House…and all understanding what it means to suffer mental illness.
In the first few years I was here my next door neighbour (good Catholic) suspicious of my spirituality and devotion to The Church asked my mother ( now dec’d) how long I had been religious (he was convinced my Faith and spirituality reflected illness). Mum replied that I had been religious since I first opened my eyes and my very first word was God. Now this set my neighbour back on his heels well and truly…and Mum was expressing considerable poetic licence as my mother.
So I am aware of the suspicion of some anyway ‘good Catholics’ (all levels) that Faith and spirituality is merely an expression of pathology.

I am sorry, Tim, that you have had to suffer as you have! I am sorry that you are unable to freely discuss your illness in your own situation. I was talking to a priest a few weeks ago and mentioned a TV program on MI and asked him if he had seen it and this is what he said “I did think about watching it, but then I thought I really dont want to know about that sort of stuff”…I am so happy I am not at all a violent person or Father would have copped one on the nose.

Blessings and regards…Barb

Thanks for your kind and understanding words. My faith and treatment are, on the surface, unrelated. I’m blessed with a deeper understanding of certain mysteries. I know nothing that happens is wasted. I often wonder at the inner workings of the Lord in my life. He upholds me. I embrace what I have been given and treasure it. Tim

 

[brigid12]

Goodness, Brigid…you have me all organizedhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_25.gif
Sorry! I know I have a tendency to “organize” others since I am the original Chicken Little.
Knowing you suffer depression and that you have worked on psyche wards, you would understand that probably only other sufferers insight and understand the depth of suffering that can be involved…here is a whole ministry and an increasingly important one with wards here full of mainly (approx.) 16 - 25year olds. The other thing that has struck me about psyche wards is just how important to patients their Faith is and in the main psych patients are people of Faith.
I think your really right.
I think this way…if The Lord sends someone knocking on my door as it were, then I will give it more thought. And if you knew me in person, you would realize such as I do not approach my parish priest…and oh my never my Archbishop…with such grandiose notions.
I understand - mea culp, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!
I am the most casual and laid back type of Aussie you could ever come across and it is simply my nature - the way God has constructed me. Also, I very deliberately and with focus keep a low profile in The Church on all levels.
Nope, not me!
**Self knowledge is the beginning of wisdom. (Where does that come from-Scripture? A Saint’s words?) **
I have thought things through sufficiently to know there is a way, should others knock on my door, to get it all off the ground without seeking permissions of heirarchy at any level. If it ever happened, once it was a proven viable - then I would put my cards on the table to those necessary.
I have thought too that it could all start off as a cyberspace community only at least initially and see where that goes. I am convinced that the internet is only just beginning to be utilized as a tool for evangelizing and all sorts of matters spiritual.
True!
The first step is others knocking at my door…that is my ‘deal’ with The Lord.:bigyikes: I have put my concept out onto the internet, the next move if there is to be one is not mine. In other words, the ball is in the court and not my play either.
I simply feel not call to be a foundress; however, if others knocked on my door I would need to consider to my mind that despite my feelings, I may be called to do so. It scares me silly!!!
Complete understanding here!!!
The truth of the matter is that all the Catholic women I know who suffer mental illness have left The Church completely and due to the treatment they received from The Church. I was advised by Public Mental Health to leave The Church due to the treatment I was receiving and to join the Anglican Church who apparently are much better informed re mental illness and with a better attitude towards MI. When I told PMH I could not do that, I was accused of having an irresponsible attitude towards my illness. That is all past tense now due to my (private) psychiatrist who has a really good grasp of what my Faith and religion mean to me…and she is athiest. She also knows I take a very responsible stance towards my illness.
Your prayers are very much appreciated … very much!

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

If anyone would like to PM me on this subject, please feel free to do so…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Barb - Goodness, Brigid…you have me all organizedhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_25.gif
Brigid - Sorry! I know I have a tendency to “organize” others since I am the original Chicken Little.

• No need to apologize, Brigid, I really set it jokingly.*

Barb - Knowing you suffer depression and that you have worked on psyche wards, you would understand that probably only other sufferers insight and understand the depth of suffering that can be involved…here is a whole ministry and an increasingly important one with wards here full of mainly (approx.) 16 - 25year olds. The other thing that has struck me about psyche wards is just how important to patients their Faith is and in the main psych patients are people of Faith.
Brigid - I think your really right.

• From my own experiences as a patient and with other psych patients, I know I found it easier to share of my episodes with understanding and insightful fellow patients…and this seems to be a general consensus of feeling among sufferers simply because we understand without words all that is involved in journeying with MI. I have only ever seen nuns on a psych ward visiting once in my 30 year history of dealing with MI…there were two of them in modern habits and when they discovered they had wandered onto a psychiatric ward, they went into confusion and panic mode, which did give me giggle, although I was very kind to them and took them into the General Hospital which had been their original objective.*
  My previous director who is a nun and ex novice mistress knew nothing at all about mental illness when I first went to see her, but she was willing to learn and she proved to be someone who geniunely wanted to learn and with an ability to empathize. I saw her for 3 years as my director and left most reluctantly to be directed by a priest and an ex parish priest of mine. From my own experiences as a sufferer of MI with the genders, I do find women do empathize and insight MI better than males as a complete generalization where any sort of professional Mental Health worker is concerned including doctors. My own psychiatrist is female and though an athiest has an excellent grasp and insight on where Faith and religion is in my life. This has been for me pure gift as she has at times come to my defense as she realizes that Faith and religion is nothing of pathology in me nor connected in any way with MI. Some MH professionals including doctors see Faith and religion as pure pathology and in need of treatment.
  Incidentally I transferred to Father since i do not have a car and travel to see Sister was long and time consuming and in inclement weather was almost a nightmare. Father is more accessible and I have been able to combine Confessor and Director which is a real blessing.

Barb - I think this way…if The Lord sends someone knocking on my door as it were, then I will give it more thought. And if you knew me in person, you would realize such as I do not approach my parish priest…and oh my never my Archbishop…with such grandiose notions.
Brigid - I understand - mea culp, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

• Having been raised in a Catholic home where respect and discipline were the order of each day and then attending Catholic schools all my life which reinforced this upbringing…back in the days when nuns were the only teachers in old style habits pre V2…and the nuns also insisted that we treat priests as we would Jesus, I still start to tremble faced with anyone clerical. I know it is simply conditioning, but I just can’t stop my heart from racing, brow from sweating and voice and hands shaking if faced with a priest unless I know him exceptionally well and there are very few indeed where our relationship has progressed to the point where I can see and relate to them as human as me.*

Barb - I am the most casual and laid back type of Aussie you could ever come across and it is simply my nature - the way God has constructed me. Also, I very deliberately and with focus keep a low profile in The Church on all levels.
*Nope, not me! *
***Bridgid - Self knowledge is the beginning of wisdom. (Where does that come from-Scripture? A Saint’s words?) ***

• I think you are probably referring to Scripture and the Book of Wisdom “Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom”…mind you my self knowledge does cause me to quake and tremble !!! *

Barb - The first step is others knocking at my door…that is my ‘deal’ with The Lord.:bigyikes: I have put my concept out onto the internet, the next move if there is to be one is not mine. In other words, the ball is in the court and not my play either.
I simply feel not call to be a foundress; however, if others knocked on my door I would need to consider to my mind that despite my feelings, I may be called to do so. It scares me silly!!!
Brigid - Complete understanding here!!!

• Thanks again for understanding! *

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Thanks for your kind and understanding words. My faith and treatment are, on the surface, unrelated. I’m blessed with a deeper understanding of certain mysteries. I know nothing that happens is wasted. I often wonder at the inner workings of the Lord in my life. He upholds me. I embrace what I have been given and treasure it. Tim

Hi Tim…goodness but my response to your above Post is the long in arriving for sure. I needed to go through this thread to check something out and in doing that, realized I had not responded to your above post. Apologies!.. and it was pure oversight as I am sure you in your persistent generosity will recognize this.
My psychiatrist knows that my Faith and illness are two separate entities and that, indeed (and she has expressed this), that Faith and a sense of humour have been my constant support in illness and major contributor to years of stable mental health. However, psychiatry was long in arriving at that decision and I had years of my Faith being treated as a pathology, which was terribly difficult. But I would never let psychiatry get the better of me in any way re Faith and treating it as an illness needing treatment.

Indeed nothing in life is ever wasted - neither the good, the bad nor the ugly!!! As my life continues (now a young 63yrs of age ) I see all the loose ends (I had thought) of my life drawing together and forming the one strand, which is my overall journey to date.

I have learnt not only to be thankful and praise The Lord for the happy things in life, but the same for any difficulty or suffering…although I usually feel lousy about it all when difficulty first strikes (conditoning!), but almost immediately thanks and praise then flows into my heart for I know the only reason The Lord permits the bad and the ugly is because He can bring a greater good out of them. Perhaps we will never actually see this greater good, but Faith tells one it is indeed present, or the bad and the ugly would just never happen.

Thank you again for sharing, Tim!..and again my apologies for overlooking a response to your thread initially …Blessings and my regards…Barb

 

[PraiseGodxJMJ]

:juggle: Hey Barb,

                     I was born with chromosome 22 missing, in my genes. And this leaves me with seizures. Seizures take many forms. When I have a seizure I know it is going to come. I feel dizzy, I cannot stand up. I feel like I am going to faint and I feel the room spinning, then I throw up. Yuk :eek:

This is not fun Barb. I am only 22 my mom gets worried. I went to the hospital so many times for this. I even colapsed on the floor and my grandpa said I gave him a scare because I wasnt responding. I take seizure medication now it helps but I still get quite a few seizures.

See in my case some doctors think it is Psuedo Seizures I feel that it isnt… My seizures are usually 5 to 30 seconds (commonly more than 10), with a gradual beginning and ending. When I get them.

The I will stare (as I would in any absence seizure) but often is somewhat responsive. Eye blinking or slight jerking movements of the lips may occur. One of my doctors said Daydreaming and inattentiveness can mimic these seizures. While that is true I just know i is not a fake seizure I know it isnt.

How do you explain, when I watch TV or go to a place that has blinking lights so fast like if you are in a club cause me to have seizures! You tell me. That doesnt sound that I make this up.

Here is a typical story:
“In the morning, I get these ‘jumps.’ My arms fly up for a second, and I often spill my coffee or drop what I’m holding like I was getting something to drink in the refrigerator and I had a sudden jerk in my arm like it just happened and I broke my mothers boyfriend’s mom’s plate I felt bad I just didnt know why I did that sometimes you cant help it. Now and then my hands will stay shut for a split second. Sometimes I get a few jumps in a row. Once I’ve been up for a few hours, the jumps stop.”

Then I get very brief jerks. Usually they don’t last more than a second or two. There can be just one, but sometimes many will occur within a short time. I feel like if I have a mix of Myoclonic (MY-o-KLON-ik) seizures are brief, shock-like jerks of a muscle or a group of muscles. “Myo” means muscle and “clonus” (KLOH-nus) means rapidly alternating contraction and relaxation—jerking or twitching—of a muscle. Juvenile myoclonic epilepsy: The seizures usually involve the neck, shoulders, and upper arms. In many patients the seizures most often occur soon after waking up. They usually begin around puberty or sometimes in early adulthood in people with a normal range of intelligence. In most cases, these seizures can be well controlled with medication but it must be continued throughout life.

Can I have both without knowing Barb? I also fell that I have this:

Lennox-Gastaut syndrome: This is an uncommon syndrome that usually includes other types of seizures as well. It begins in early childhood I never told my mom that I would jerk sometimes in my childhood because I wasnt aware of it at the time but now come to realize it I did jerk a lot as a child with my neck. Or make facial jerks in my mouth or eyes…

The myoclonic seizures usually involve the neck, shoulders, upper arms, and often the face. They may be quite strong and are difficult to control.

Can I still become a Fransiscan sister and have seizures?

 

[bcuster]

We used to have in The Church a beautiful apostolate (rather than ministry) called “The Apostolate of the Sick” in which sufferings and difficulties were striven to be borne as well as could be possible and with prayer and difficulties etc. offered for The Church. It was considered to be an Apostolate of Prayer.

I am a Missionary of Mercy. This means that I am associated with the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT). I offer my sufferings for the mission of the SOLT priests, deacons, sisters, and laity belonging to the Society. While I have many physical pains, I also suffer from MI.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I am a Missionary of Mercy. This means that I am associated with the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT). I offer my sufferings for the mission of the SOLT priests, deacons, sisters, and laity belonging to the Society. While I have many physical pains, I also suffer from MI.

Hi BC:thumbsup: …I have read and noted your post above and will come back to it with a reply as soon as I can…it is 7.16pm here in Sth. Aust. on Monday 12th.May and I have a few things I must do before responding, as The Apostolate of The Sick is a very profound one with a rich theology included in our great spiritual classics as a most important point of spirituality surrounding it…and I would like to give my reply to you the time it needs.
Very sadly today we hear an aweful lot about the Apostolate TO the Sick…but never about the Apostolate OF the Sick which was oft and richly propounded pre Vatican2. Those who are ill can be viewed as being need of being ministered to, and the fact that they have an actual ministry (I prefer the word “apostolate”) themselves and a rich and important one in the life of The Church has been overlooked it would seem, and as I said it is founded in Scripture and cited as a most important point of spirituality in our great spiritual classics.
I would also like to respond to you on a more personal level and I have had a look at the website of the Society of Our Lady of The Most Holy Trinity.
I am hoping to come back to the above later tonight, but if I cannot, do rest assured I will be responding.

Blessings and my regards…Barb