Mess of a Mass at a University Retreat

[zagjames]

I just got back from a Freshman Retreat at my college. The retreat was nice, not that catholic, but nice none the less. What bugged me was the Mass.

I have always been happy that none of the Masses I have ever been to have had that many liturgical abuses. Until now…

The Mass was in the living room of a hundered year old mansion that a wiccan lived in and performed her crazy stuff in.

So the Alter was an end table that was moved infront of the fire place. The hosts were placed in a money collection plate (you know the ones with felt in them). The priest wore only a shirt, jeans and a stole. He performed the entire Mass sitting in his chair. Even the consicration. During which he changed the words of the concecration. Instead of saying “so this in memory of me” or “do this in memory of me” he said “do this in the memory of my love for you.” He then had two parishioners do the final elevation of the concecrated hosts and blood, while he siad the “through him, with him, in him” part. He allowed the entire group to go into a huging frenzy during the kiss of peace that took almost 5 minutes. He encouraged the congregation to sit for almost the whole Mass. He invited everyone to recieve communion. Many people who are not Catholic based on his advice took communion.

The band for the Mass consisted of modern “Christian” music the kind that is not even acceptable at alot of Penecostal Churches the kind you only find in youth groups where everyone wheres loose ponchos, and hemp. There was a bongo, and a gituar. Oh and the kicker was that the “alter” was centerd in the front of the room but too make room for the band the “alter” was moved off to one side. Many of the songs required movements and dancing to the songs.

This Mass was completly inappropriate. It made me cringe. The Priest who celebrated the Mass is really a nice guy, but I can’t let this slide. I think I am gonna go talk to the head of University Ministry about this and bring up my concerns. Do any of you have advice on this?

 

[Dauphin]

I went to a Traditional Latin Mass today. It was as orthodox as it gets. The rubrics were followed exactly. The priest gave a sermon about Hell. For some reason, nobody seemed to have a pressing need to break the rules; it all seemed to be about God…

Hopefully, we managed to cancel out this priest’s irreverence in the eyes of God.

 

[verdigirl]

IThis Mass was completly inappropriate. It made me cringe. The Priest who celebrated the Mass is really a nice guy, but I can’t let this slide. I think I am gonna go talk to the head of University Ministry about this and bring up my concerns. Do any of you have advice on this?

Why don’t you talk to the priest directly? I would probably approach it something like this:

“Father, I want to thank you for trying your hardest to make the Mass accessible to us young people today. I know that our active participation is very important to you. However, I’m concerned about the validity of the Sacrament, since the words of consecration were not spoken correctly. I’m also concerned about some of the other actions, which in a regular parish setting would be liturgical abuses. I would not want one of us to come away from this liturgy thinking these things are acceptable, and as a teacher of the Faith, I would encourage you to show us the right way of doing things. I think that obedience to the Magisterium is a good thing, because it helps us obey God Himself.”

Or something along those lines. I guarantee that his motivation was a very good one, but you are within your right to insist on a valid Sacrament.

Just be charitable about it, ok?

 

[Lazerlike42]

Well the Sacrament was almost certainly valid. I just say this so the OP doesn’t worry about what he/she received/bowed before.

The words “Do this in remembrance of me” are not required for the consecration of the Precious Blood, which we know because some eastern Catholic rites do not contain them.

 

[joanofarc3]

I just got back from a Freshman Retreat at my college. The retreat was nice, not that catholic, but nice none the less. What bugged me was the Mass.

I have always been happy that none of the Masses I have ever been to have had that many liturgical abuses. Until now…

The Mass was in the living room of a hundered year old mansion that a wiccan lived in and performed her crazy stuff in.

So the Alter was an end table that was moved infront of the fire place. The hosts were placed in a money collection plate (you know the ones with felt in them). The priest wore only a shirt, jeans and a stole. He performed the entire Mass sitting in his chair. Even the consicration. During which he changed the words of the concecration. Instead of saying “so this in memory of me” or “do this in memory of me” he said “do this in the memory of my love for you.” He then had two parishioners do the final elevation of the concecrated hosts and blood, while he siad the “through him, with him, in him” part. He allowed the entire group to go into a huging frenzy during the kiss of peace that took almost 5 minutes. He encouraged the congregation to sit for almost the whole Mass. He invited everyone to recieve communion. Many people who are not Catholic based on his advice took communion.

The band for the Mass consisted of modern “Christian” music the kind that is not even acceptable at alot of Penecostal Churches the kind you only find in youth groups where everyone wheres loose ponchos, and hemp. There was a bongo, and a gituar. Oh and the kicker was that the “alter” was centerd in the front of the room but too make room for the band the “alter” was moved off to one side. Many of the songs required movements and dancing to the songs.

This Mass was completly inappropriate. It made me cringe. The Priest who celebrated the Mass is really a nice guy, but I can’t let this slide. I think I am gonna go talk to the head of University Ministry about this and bring up my concerns. Do any of you have advice on this?

Go to the Bishop ASAP and report it. Normally the issue should be taken up with the priest first, but in this case I’d say skip that and go straight to His Excellency. There is no excuse for such behavior. Apparently there’s a site, Catholics United for the Faith (???) that says what the laity are to do in the situation. If the bishop does nothing, I’d visit the site to see what to do after that. Oh, and pray for them all.

 

[chicago]

This is likely a case where trying to talk to the priest or perhaps even the university ministry will prove pretty fruitless. When things are gone this far, they know what they are doing and are just lost in it. If there are others who feel similarly, it would be worthwhile to express dissatisfaction to the university ministry and offer recommendations for something more preferable. In fact, actually getting involved and helping to organize an alternative offering in the future might be the best course of positive action. One thing which I would do is simple ask (without offerring an actual opinion) that in the future feedback forms be made available so that students can comment upon their experience (likes and dislikes, things done well/areas for potential improvement) so that they can better evaluate what retreat participants got out of the experience and where they might be able to take things in the future in reponse to needs or concerns expressed. This could be a reasonable request which they might actually follow through upon. Perhaps it would even open the door for them honestly listening to your own concerns.

 

[zagjames]

Mmm… so i figured it would be worth mentioning that the mass was set up by a lay person working in Uni Ministry. So some of the mess came from there.

I think I am going to talk with the head of University Ministry. I will write up a letter to send to His Excellency, and I will go over it with the head of UM and hopefully we can work out the problems and we can send the letter to the bishop together along with something to tell him how it is being handled.

Thanks for all the advice, if any of you know the address of the site that joanofarc3 mentioned that would be cool.

 

[zagjames]

This is likely a case where trying to talk to the priest or perhaps even the university ministry will prove pretty fruitless. When things are gone this far, they know what they are doing and are just lost in it. If there are others who feel similarly, it would be worthwhile to express dissatisfaction to the university ministry and offer recommendations for something more preferable. In fact, actually getting involved and helping to organize an alternative offering in the future might be the best course of positive action. One thing which I would do is simple ask (without offerring an actual opinion) that in the future feedback forms be made available so that students can comment upon their experience (likes and dislikes, things done well/areas for potential improvement) so that they can better evaluate what retreat participants got out of the experience and where they might be able to take things in the future in reponse to needs or concerns expressed. This could be a reasonable request which they might actually follow through upon. Perhaps it would even open the door for them honestly listening to your own concerns.

This is what I would do, except we had an evaluation sheet, and the Mass was one of the things we were supposed to evaluate. Most of the students loved it because it was fun. There have been many more abuses other wise. When I suggested to the head of Liturgical Life in the UM that we use bells in the mass, or when it is just boys alter serving that we use surplices w/ cassoks instead of albs. She relied to the affect of that isnt in the spirit of Vatican II. After talking with her more she came to be more understanding but said it doesnt fit in with how we do things here. So I dunno I think I am just going to go have a meeting with the Father in charge of UM and see what he has to say.

 

[lizaanne]

I think I am going to talk with the head of University Ministry. I will write up a letter to send to His Excellency, and I will go over it with the head of UM and hopefully we can work out the problems and we can send the letter to the bishop together along with something to tell him how it is being handled.

This is a good start - just don’t let the UM person talk you out of going to the Bishop. He needs to know what’s going on in his diocese.

If the priest is so bold as to take part in such an ordeal I would think that he’s not going to be very receptive to your concerns. He needs to be reprimanded and re-trained regarding what is allowed and appropriate.

I don’t care that the Mass was for young people - it is still entirely possible to have a reverent Mass in a garage, living room, or concentration camp if needed. It’s all a matter of how it’s done - and he does seem to need some direction in that area. And not from you, but from his Bishop.

Good luck with this. When I read your post last night I was nearly sick to think of such abuse and couldn’t even respond. I hope it all works out for all of you, including this priest who clearly needs our prayers.

~Liza

 

[chicago]

This is what I would do, except we had an evaluation sheet, and the Mass was one of the things we were supposed to evaluate. Most of the students loved it because it was fun. There have been many more abuses other wise. When I suggested to the head of Liturgical Life in the UM that we use bells in the mass, or when it is just boys alter serving that we use surplices w/ cassoks instead of albs. She relied to the affect of that isnt in the spirit of Vatican II. After talking with her more she came to be more understanding but said it doesnt fit in with how we do things here. So I dunno I think I am just going to go have a meeting with the Father in charge of UM and see what he has to say.

That’s a fair enough approach. Though, honestly, I think that you already have your answer inherant in what you have here offered as coming from them up to this point.

That said, I also think that you need to make distinctions between what you express concern over which is more serious (such as some of the things you noted at this retreat Mass) and personal preferences or thoughts as to what is ideal (such as the male only servers and cassocks.) The former is something which they truly ought to take seriously. The latter (while they ought to respect your interests) is something which will likely only get you dismissed as a traditionalist whiner. You don’t want the larger concerns to get cast off simply because of the lesser, therefore. There is obviously a politic to play and issues involved which you are going to have to be cognizant of and wise about dealing with here if you want anything good to come of the situation.

Ironically, it seems to me that some of the Catholic campus ministries are starting to move in a more traditional direction these days, what with altar servers actually wearing vestments at all and such.

 

[zagjames]

That’s a fair enough approach. Though, honestly, I think that you already have your answer inherant in what you have here offered as coming from them up to this point.

That said, I also think that you need to make distinctions between what you express concern over which is more serious (such as some of the things you noted at this retreat Mass) and personal preferences or thoughts as to what is ideal (such as the male only servers and cassocks.) The former is something which they truly ought to take seriously. The latter (while they ought to respect your interests) is something which will likely only get you dismissed as a traditionalist whiner. You don’t want the larger concerns to get cast off simply because of the lesser, therefore. There is obviously a politic to play and issues involved which you are going to have to be cognizant of and wise about dealing with here if you want anything good to come of the situation.

Ironically, it seems to me that some of the Catholic campus ministries are starting to move in a more traditional direction these days, what with altar servers actually wearing vestments at all and such.

I definetly get where your coming from. There are so many abuses at the Masses here, but for the most part they are minor things and it does nothing to nit pick over every little thing.

The youth involved with UM and assisting at Mass are definetly getting more conservative and want more traditional Masses. It is just taking the UM itself time to catch up. There are some of us who keep trying to start up TLMs.

Thank you everyone for you advice. I will let you know how this plays out.

 

[chicago]

The youth involved with UM and assisting at Mass are definetly getting more conservative and want more traditional Masses. It is just taking the UM itself time to catch up…

Heh. Yeah, I’d agree with that often being the case, also. Too often, the people in charge are hangers on who still think it’s the 70’s and can’t get over it or understand that the young people of today are often in a very different place than they were 30 some years ago.

 

[japhy]

I have always been happy that none of the Masses I have ever been to have had that many liturgical abuses. Until now…

This Mass was completly inappropriate. It made me cringe. The Priest who celebrated the Mass is really a nice guy, but I can’t let this slide. I think I am gonna go talk to the head of University Ministry about this and bring up my concerns. Do any of you have advice on this?

You can try what I’ve done in response to what I called a “Jenga” Mass: write a letter to the priest, inviting dialog.

 

[benedictgal]

Well the Sacrament was almost certainly valid. I just say this so the OP doesn’t worry about what he/she received/bowed before.

The words “Do this in remembrance of me” are not required for the consecration of the Precious Blood, which we know because some eastern Catholic rites do not contain them.

For Latin Rite Catholics, it is. It was an illicit Mass and the omission of the words “Do this in remembrance of me” I don’t think were valid. I will re-read your post once more because I think that if he cut up the Eucharistic Prayer it may also invalidate the Sacrifice, as well.

You need to report this to the Bishop immediately. The location would have been enough to send me running away. This was not the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by any means.

 

[m134e5]

The rubrics were followed exactly. The priest gave a sermon about Hell.

By the way you put this, it seems you think all sermons should be about hell- or that any sermon that “feels good” somehow is wrong. I don’t know your intentions- I’m only going by what I read here, but I hope you realize that while some may struggle with pride and secularism and need to be warned about hell and sin and what not, there are many others who *really don’t know *that God loves them. These people need to be told. They need to learn to not be ashamed (remember that guilt and shame are different things) before God, and you don’t do that by preaching “if you do this, you’ll go to hell; If you don’t do that, you’ll go to hell”, and say nothing about the individual’s call to holiness or about God’s mercy and love. The *entire *Christian message should be summed up in every homily somehow (of course different ones emphasize different parts of it)- so that if by chance a person who hasn’t been to Mass in say, 40 years, happens to come back that day, they will be inspired to fix their lives and come back to the Church- to God, who loves them.