Michigan’s “practicing Catholic” Governor supports expanded gay community center

[felra]

Take a look at what Michigan’s self-proclaimed “practicing Catholic” Governor is up to these days.

detnews.com/2005/metro/0510/24/B01-358785.htm

Leslie Ann Thompson, executive director of Affirmations, cheers as Gov. Jennifer Granholm takes a swing at the F&M building in Ferndale, the site of a new $5.3 million facility. “We needed a bigger space. Our existing building had maxed out,” Thompson says.

“We needed a bigger space. Our existing building had maxed out,” said Leslie Ann Thompson, executive director. “It means our community is growing, and now we will be able to accommodate them. To see this thing really happening is an amazing thing. It means we are open to everyone, not just the gay and lesbian community.”

Affirmations, which was founded in 1989, hosts a number of activities, including movie nights and dance classes in a 7,000-square-foot facility in Ferndale. Funding for the project comes from a variety of sources, including a total of $250,000 from Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG.

 

[b_justb]

Do I read this article right? It is a “state” facility that is for a specific self classified minority group? Does this state provide facilities for ALL groups, minority or majority? Why isn’t the ACLU suing the state to stop doing this because it seems to be an equally opportunity issue?

 

[wabrams]

Maybe he wants to keep them away from everyone else?

 

[felra]

wabrams:

Maybe he wants to keep them away from everyone else?

My impression was more the she was laying a foundation for their greater neighborhood foothold in the mainstream of society.

 

[Guar_Fan]

b_justb:

Do I read this article right? It is a “state” facility that is for a specific self classified minority group? Does this state provide facilities for ALL groups, minority or majority?

That’s not the impression I got from the article - it sounds like they get their funding via donations. And the United Way for Southeastern Michigan says this about the group: “Affirmations is a non-profit community center for the LGBT community in Southeast Michigan.” volunteersolutions.org/uwcs/org/214267-printer.html

 

[wabrams]

felra:

My impression was more the she was laying a foundation for their greater neighborhood foothold in the mainstream of society.

Sorry, wishful thinking on my part.

 

[Gnosis]

**Maybe he wants to keep them away from everyone else?

Sorry, wishful thinking on my part.**

Excuse me, as a homosexual, I find that really offensive. Is that how the Church views me then? My entire life I’ve had to face a fear of rejection for being gay, and now people who are supposed to represent the love of God are saying that they’d rather I just go and segregate myself.

Is my very existence just that offensive and disgusting to you?

 

[Guar_Fan]

Gnosis:

My entire life I’ve had to face a fear of rejection for being gay, and now people who are supposed to represent the love of God are saying that they’d rather I just go and segregate myself.

No, you belong in the Church. We need you with us. God wants you with us.

I have noticed that the people who voice their opinions in these forums can sometimes to uncharitable and even openly hateful (especially in the Islam forum).

I think this is in part a failing of the medium… electronic bulletin boards and e-mail isolate us from the feelings of those who read our messages. But I think that those of us who post on this Christian site would do well to be a little more Christ-like in our attitudes towards others.

 

[felra]

Maybe he wants to keep them away from everyone else?

Sorry, wishful thinking on my part.

Excuse me, as a homosexual, I find that really offensive. Is that how the Church views me then? My entire life I’ve had to face a fear of rejection for being gay, and now people who are supposed to represent the love of God are saying that they’d rather I just go and segregate myself.

Is my very existence just that offensive and disgusting to you?

Maybe instead of looking for reasons to be offended, you can more focus your energies on looking for ways to get yourself help to get out of the unhealthy homosexual lifestyle. Here is a link to a really terrific Catholic resource: www.courage.com

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

That is true, but to deny that the sexual acts are profane and a perversion denies the MORTAL character of these sins. These are grave sins. All people sin but we must not condone sin and strive not to sin while beseeching God for His mercy.

The problem here is that a behaviour (sex outside the context of a valid marriage) is no longer seen as separating oneself from the friendship of God but both the Bible and the Church teach that such acts are against God’s wishes.

I accept someone with SSAD with all my heart, but revile their words if they seek to deny the sinful nature of willful homosecual relations.

I saw the basketball player in a lesbian relationship talking happily about her lesbian relationship while wearing a CROSS! How does this happen? how can you wear a cross that says you follow Jesus but at the same time speak rapturously about a homosexual relationship!

I cannot believe she is too culpable because the ignorance is too astounding.

 

[felra]

MichaelTDoyle:

That is true, but to deny that the sexual acts are profane and a perversion denies the MORTAL character of these sins. These are grave sins. All people sin but we must not condone sin and strive not to sin while beseeching God for His mercy.

The problem here is that a behaviour (sex outside the context of a valid marriage) is no longer seen as separating oneself from the friendship of God but both the Bible and the Church teach that such acts are against God’s wishes.

I accept someone with SSAD with all my heart, but revile their words if they seek to deny the sinful nature of willful homosecual relations.

I saw the basketball player in a lesbian relationship talking happily about her lesbian relationship while wearing a CROSS! How does this happen? how can you wear a cross that says you follow Jesus but at the same time speak rapturously about a homosexual relationship!

I cannot believe she is too culpable because the ignorance is too astounding.

You make a very clear and compassionate point.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I don’t know how clear i am cause I am pretty confused myself. Like how politicians can support abortion and come to Mass and receive the Eucharist?

How can WHOLE churches (non-Catholic) turn away from the clear teachings on sexuality in the Bible. How can they allow divorce when Jesus is explicit about it?

How can people behave in ways explicitly countermanded by Jesus and claim to be Christian?

I am not talking about stumbling, but denying the sinfulness of the behaviour itself. With some points I can understand there would be confusion but these are explicit tenets.

 

[Gnosis]

Someone here is saying that I should be segregated from society…and you’re telling me not to look for reasons to be offended!! You have some nerve.

Honestly, if you people knew the kind of pain you are causing ACTUAL REAL HUMAN BEINGS, you might reconsider some of your positions…or maybe not, maybe you’re just cold hearted all around. I don’t know.

It’s easy for you to talk about how “this is my cross to bear”. But the fact is, you didn’t grow up in a soicety that cleary REJECTS you. You didn’t grow up trying to hide an aspect of youself, afraid that those you love will not be able to accept you if you knew.

And still, you don’t have “God” telling you that you have to spend the rest of your life alone, unable to love those you really love, in the name of some vauge and abstract “plan”.

Yet still, you don’t have millions of people telling you that you suffer from an unbalanced pyshcological disorder, people who would protest your funerals, people who constantly tell you you’re going to burn for eternity, that you’re vile, disgusting and sinful. People who act like you’re some kind of pervavsive disease on society, people who harass you (as I recently have been) when they suspect you’re sexuality.

So please, before you tell me not to look for reasons to get offended, I suggest you remember that I am more than just a statistic, or the object of a moral dogma, or something you ‘read about’.

 

[MikeinSD]

Gnosis:

Someone here is saying that I should be segregated from society…and you’re telling me not to look for reasons to be offended!! You have some nerve.

Honestly, if you people knew the kind of pain you are causing ACTUAL REAL HUMAN BEINGS, you might reconsider some of your positions…or maybe not, maybe you’re just cold hearted all around. I don’t know.

It’s easy for you to talk about how “this is my cross to bear”. But the fact is, you didn’t grow up in a soicety that cleary REJECTS you. You didn’t grow up trying to hide an aspect of youself, afraid that those you love will not be able to accept you if you knew.

And still, you don’t have “God” telling you that you have to spend the rest of your life alone, unable to love those you really love, in the name of some vauge and abstract “plan”.

Yet still, you don’t have millions of people telling you that you suffer from an unbalanced pyshcological disorder, people who would protest your funerals, people who constantly tell you you’re going to burn for eternity, that you’re vile, disgusting and sinful. People who act like you’re some kind of pervavsive disease on society, people who harass you (as I recently have been) when they suspect you’re sexuality.

So please, before you tell me not to look for reasons to get offended, I suggest you remember that I am more than just a statistic, or the object of a moral dogma, or something you ‘read about’.

I’m sorry but it is something you will have to get used to here in the forums. And in real life. My way of dealing is grow a thick skin. Learn about the topic under discussion. And simply out think posters who are – less than charitable.

Be proud of yourself. We could have stayed with our own comfort zone. But I think hearing other people’s opinions helps us grow. And maybe even the – less than charitable – posters might learn something from you. Good luck. Mike

 

[felra]

Gnosis:

Someone here is saying that I should be segregated from society…and you’re telling me not to look for reasons to be offended!! You have some nerve.

Honestly, if you people knew the kind of pain you are causing ACTUAL REAL HUMAN BEINGS, you might reconsider some of your positions…or maybe not, maybe you’re just cold hearted all around. I don’t know.

It’s easy for you to talk about how “this is my cross to bear”. But the fact is, you didn’t grow up in a soicety that cleary REJECTS you. You didn’t grow up trying to hide an aspect of youself, afraid that those you love will not be able to accept you if you knew.

And still, you don’t have “God” telling you that you have to spend the rest of your life alone, unable to love those you really love, in the name of some vauge and abstract “plan”.

Yet still, you don’t have millions of people telling you that you suffer from an unbalanced pyshcological disorder, people who would protest your funerals, people who constantly tell you you’re going to burn for eternity, that you’re vile, disgusting and sinful. People who act like you’re some kind of pervavsive disease on society, people who harass you (as I recently have been) when they suspect you’re sexuality.

So please, before you tell me not to look for reasons to get offended, I suggest you remember that I am more than just a statistic, or the object of a moral dogma, or something you ‘read about’.

Thank you for sharing some of your painful experience. As the other poster stated, it helps others on this board to better understand your personal experience as a gentleman afflicted and struggling with SSA to a significant degree. It is unfortunate that the Church, the Body of Christ (beleivers), has not been there in the ways that needed to meet you where you were (and are) at – we all share your need for validation and belonging to become whole in our persons.

As Christians, our ultimate goal, whatever each individual’s personal crosses, is to daily strive by God’s grace to live a more fully integrated and transformed life in Christ Jesus. Taking up our daily crosses (afflictions and struggles from within and without) and following Christ faithfully is the normal means that Jesus uses to mold and transform us into greater holiness.

I repeat my suggestion to you, the quickest way to get beyond your pain is to unjoin yourself from any participation for a homosexual lifestyle, change your gaze and affections from what is offensive to the gay lifestyle, and begin to more solely check out, look for, daily pray to God to show you, bring to you, invite you to those Christian person’s and organizations that will actually minister to your needs and in the process usher in healing.

Forget for a while about the " …millions of people telling you that you …" and be open to the one person in your life who God wants to speak through to let you know first hand His infinite and unwavering love for you, to experience first hand the knowledge of how He was there in each and every moment of your painful and confusing and now angry personal experience. It will never make sense until you join with the suffering and dying of Jesus. That is what He came for, to rescue and save us, to save you, to save me, from our afflictions and toils.

Those confirming accepting you in the homosexual lifestyle are meeting your needs for belonging and validation, but they can never meet the deeper needs that you have for wholeness (holiness) of person, intimacy with Jesus (who is the only whole man), and belonging in a family of believers.

"He ws spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity, one of those from whom men hide their faces, spurned, and we held in no high esteem. Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured, …Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole, by his stripes we were healed.” Isaiah 53: 3-5.

 

[Guar_Fan]

felra:

to better understand your personal experience as a gentleman afflicted and struggling with SSA

What does SSA mean? (besides Social Security Administration)

 

[estesbob]

Gnosis:

Someone here is saying that I should be segregated from society…and you’re telling me not to look for reasons to be offended!! You have some nerve.

Honestly, if you people knew the kind of pain you are causing ACTUAL REAL HUMAN BEINGS, you might reconsider some of your positions…or maybe not, maybe you’re just cold hearted all around. I don’t know.

.

You pain derives from your sinful behavior. Seek counseling, pray incesasantly and put your sinful behavior behind you. You will be amazd at how much that will alleviate your pain

 

[Lurch104]

Guar Fan:

What does SSA mean? (besides Social Security Administration)

Same Sex Attraction

 

[MikeinSD]

Actually, the polite way to address people the way they wish to be addressed. For example, many African Americans prefer not to be called “Negro.” Men in love with other men and women in love with other women prefer to be called gay and lesbian – not homosexual. We all need to mind our manners in public forums.

 

[Jeffrey]

Yes… your lifestyle is offensive to God. You as a person aren’t… but your lifestyle is.

Maybe he wants to keep them away from everyone else?

Sorry, wishful thinking on my part.

Excuse me, as a homosexual, I find that really offensive. Is that how the Church views me then? My entire life I’ve had to face a fear of rejection for being gay, and now people who are supposed to represent the love of God are saying that they’d rather I just go and segregate myself.

Is my very existence just that offensive and disgusting to you?