Miracles Not Required

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Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Archbishop of Genoa, disclosed Sunday Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the pope’s ideological “enforcer” for two decades, had presented a formula for the abolition of the centuries-old “miracle clause” to the pope.

The 84-year-old pontiff has created 482 saints in his 26 years as the church’s leader, more than all his predecessors put together. He also has beatified 1,337 people, those who have performed one miracle after death.

Abolishing the need for miracles would speed up the canonization of some of the Pope’s favorite candidates, including Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who was beatified last year.

washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041220-011353-9724r.htm
 
Hmmm, I don’t like that idea. I don’t like that they abolished the 50 year wait, either. One of the reasons these were in place were to pevent popularity from canonizing a saint. Getting rid of the wait and the miracles makes it too easy. It leaves the process open for mistakes, and potential future scandal.
 
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Almeria:
Hmmm, I don’t like that idea. I don’t like that they abolished the 50 year wait, either. One of the reasons these were in place were to pevent popularity from canonizing a saint. Getting rid of the wait and the miracles makes it too easy. It leaves the process open for mistakes, and potential future scandal.
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I agree - I can never understand why we sometimes need to fix things which ain’t broke? Sometimes issues are seen best in “retrospect” -
 
That would be dangerous. Ive seen plenty of Miracles in my life and the world. People who were not intented to be saints would misintenionaly be made saints.
 
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HagiaSophia:
I agree - I can never understand why we sometimes need to fix things which ain’t broke? Sometimes issues are seen best in “retrospect” -
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Agreed, it is not needed.
 
I believe that Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha was beatified 300 years after her death (or 96 years after Rome was officially petitioned) without a verifiable miracle.
 
As I posted on the parallel thread …

I’d like to point out, before folks get too much into ranting about the horror involved in breaking with tradition and practice that they perceive as stretching back to time immemorial, that “time immemorial”, in this instance, traces back to slightly less than 500 years ago. It was not until 1634 that Pope Urban VII reserved to Rome the final authority in the processes of beatification and canonization.

The timeframe since which miracles have been an absolute requisite for canonization of others than martyrs dates to no earlier than that, although the existence of miracles certainly never hurt anyone’s cause for such status.

Additionally …
Bill A:
I’ve seen plenty of Miracles in my life and the world. People who were not intented to be saints would misintenionaly be made saints.
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I would guess that such would not be the case in the minds of those theologians who believe that the Pope, when he canonizes, speaks infallibly.
. . .** we decree and define** that Blessed N. is a Saint, and we inscribe his name in the catalogue of saints, and order that his memory be devoutly and piously celebrated yearly on the . . . day of . . .
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Many years,

Neil
 
The least of you is Greater than John the Baptist.

Mathew 11:11
 
Irish Melkite:
As I posted on the parallel thread …

I’d like to point out, before folks get too much into ranting about the horror involved in breaking with tradition and practice that they perceive as stretching back to time immemorial, that “time immemorial”, in this instance, traces back to slightly less than 500 years ago. It was not until 1634 that Pope Urban VII reserved to Rome the final authority in the processes of beatification and canonization.

The timeframe since which miracles have been an absolute requisite for canonization of others than martyrs dates to no earlier than that, although the existence of miracles certainly never hurt anyone’s cause for such status.
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Vatican official: Church always needed proof of saint’s intercession

VATICAN CITY (CNS) – From the earliest days, the Catholic Church would declare someone a saint only when there was a widespread reputation of holiness and some evidence that favors were granted through the person’s intercession, a Vatican official said. The official, Msgr. Robert J. Sarno of the Congregation for Saints’ Causes, said, “Graces, favors and miracles were always part of the process,” although the number and type of favors and the process for verifying them has changed throughout the centuries. “Whether a miracle should be required for beatification and canonization has been a matter of continuing theological discussion,” he said Jan. 3, adding that he knows of no recent formal proposals to change the current practice. While the current requirements of one miracle for beatification and another for canonization are matters of church law, which can change, the church always has insisted that its formally proclaimed saints “are worthy of imitation and have interceded” with God to answer the prayers of the faithful, he said.

catholicnews.com/data/briefs/cns/20050103.htm#head6
 
I thought I posted this before, but I don’t see it. It troubles me how easy it seems to be for people to be canonized. Not that I don’t think we could always use new role models, and perhaps a greater number of models menas more diversity, so more people will find some one who’s example illuminates them on a more personal level.

But I look at the fact that so many people have been cannonized under the current Pope, and wonder how this is happneing. I fear that doing things like cutting down the waiting period, and eliminating the need for miracles will make the process more susceptible to the antics of people who act like lobbyists before US Congress.
 
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serendipity:
I thought I posted this before, but I don’t see it. It troubles me how easy it seems to be for people to be canonized. Not that I don’t think we could always use new role models, and perhaps a greater number of models menas more diversity, so more people will find some one who’s example illuminates them on a more personal level.

But I look at the fact that so many people have been cannonized under the current Pope, and wonder how this is happneing. I fear that doing things like cutting down the waiting period, and eliminating the need for miracles will make the process more susceptible to the antics of people who act like lobbyists before US Congress.
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Prettry much it is a cultural difference between the part of the world the Pope comes from and the “west”. We are used to having a few names nominated, investigated and going through the process. Sainthood was a rare and very special thing.

In the part of the world the pope comes from many local “saints” , local miraculous happenings, visions, and “holy people” are venerated without formal process; such as abbots, monks, people of high virtue and those who provided extraordinary service or lived a life of heroic virtue in some way which locally was known or observed… People commmonly venerate these locally, seek their intercession, and so a multiplicity of saintmaking seemed ordinary to the pope while to us here it ws “extraordinary”. Personally I feel as you do, I am unaccustomed to it, feel it kind of takes away and is done too hastily. But as I say it is a cultural POV and the pope particularly has sought these honors for people in the countries he is visiting . I suspect tht after he leves it, you will see far less of it.
 
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HagiaSophia:
In the part of the world the pope comes from many local “saints” , local miraculous happenings, visions, and “holy people” are venerated without formal process; such as abbots, monks, people of high virtue and those who provided extraordinary service or lived a life of heroic virtue in some way which locally was known or observed… People commmonly venerate these locally, seek their intercession, and so a multiplicity of saintmaking seemed ordinary to the pope while to us here it ws “extraordinary”.
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Thank you for that insight. I never considered it in those terms. At the same time though, I can’t help but wonder (and maybe this is wrong of me to think, forgive me if that is the case becuase I obviously need more reading on this topic) that it is one thing to venerate some on who has inspired you on a personal level, and another thing to say that this person is worthy of veneration by the itnernational and entire Catholic church.

I don’t think the church catches every one who was a saint, but at the same time, but I don’t know if that is a problem or even the church’s job. I think the people they do cannonize and officially recognize as a saint, are those who have universal attributes and are without a question “saintly” people and I think the miracle component part helps establish the “without a doubt” aspect of the person, and that the waiting period should be longer (if not 50 years than at least 25 in orer to see how new generations are inspired by the example of the life), to make sure the person is capable of being a role model throughout the test of time, not only in current climate for people from a particular region.

Thomas Merton is not a saint, and whether or not he is ever canonized will not really matter much to me, beucase it will not undermine his inluence in my life, and his ability to pull me back into the chruch durign a difficult time of questioning. However. I can appreciate that many people may not feel him to be an inspiration in their life.

Theresa of Avila on the other hand, is a saint, And her life style (clinging to her beliefs during the inquisition and seeking guidance always through learned people who served as her confessors) and the writings that shw left behind to instruct people how to know God better, can be an inspiration not only to most Catholics, but I feel to most people on spiritual quests in engeral. The idea of the soul being a mirror of the divinity and tending to it so it best relfects God and projects him to others.
 
I think that the difficulty with cannonizations being more rare is that we then get the idea that “I couldn’t possibly become a saint. That’s only for those REALLY special people”. When, in reality, sanctity is for everybody. If, on the other hand, we can see many examples of people to whom we can readily relate, perhaps we’ll be more inclined to say, “Hey, if they can get to heaven and be faithful on earth, maybe I can too!”
 
Personally I think man is trying to do what only God can do. Saints will recieve thier rewards in heaven for thier works here on earth.Only God is the distributor of the rewards,not man. :confused:
 
This might seem like an odd question, but I was wondering if there were some sory of search engine on a Vatican or Vatican-related site that allowed you to check up on the progess of people whose cases are being investigated for cannonization.
 
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