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Ite_ad_Ioseph
Guest
I figured I’ll ask this question here. Can an Eastern Rite Liturgy be celebrated in a Roman Rite church, and can a Tridentine Mass be celebrated in an Eastern Rite church?
Pax, Ioseph
Pax, Ioseph
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Seamus_L
Guest
Eastern Rite liturgies have been celebrated in Roman Catholic churches on numerous occasions. Typically this is in instances where an Eastern Rite congregation does not yet have there own church building. I don’t know if a Tridentine Mass has been said in an Eastern Rite church though. I couldn’t imagine what circumstances (at least in the US) it would be done under, as there are always numerous RC parishes available for a Latin mass.
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malphono
Guest
In the US, it would be somewhat likely for any Latin Rite services (whether EF or OF) to be conducted in an Eastern or Oriental church, but in the canonical East that’s not necessarily the case.
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Aramis
Guest
It is permitted under canon law, with a dual standard of just cause and no astonishment.
The practice I have seen for Byzantine use is to place the 4 requisite icons (usually: Pantocrator, Theotokos, Patron, and either St John the Forerunner or one of the Evangelists) on some form of easel, defining the royal doors and the deacon doors.
Any Catholic Divine Worship is permitted to be done at any Catholic altar. It should be noted, however, that local rubrics on entry to the sanctuary are supposed to be followed, tho that isn’t explicit in canon law (it’s part of the no astonishment standard, however). (So no women in the sanctuary unless the local parish permits.)
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Ite_ad_Ioseph
Guest
The easels make sense since you need an iconostasis. However, if you had a Tridentine Mass in a church with an iconostasis, would that get in the way of the rubrics? I am familiar with the Tridentine Mass, but this case is something I have never thought about.
Pax
Pax
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Patchunky
Guest
In the village of Brezany, Slovakia, the local Greek Catholic church was given to the Roman Catholics during the Communist occupation of Slovakia and the Greek Catholic church was forced underground. The village did not want the church to fall into the hands of the Orthodox. They always had a Roman Catholic priest who came to say Mass there.
When I visited there, in 1995, there was Roman Catholic altar for the Novus Ordo in front of the ikonostas that has been in the church since it was built in the 1700’s. From what I was told at that time, they had just gotten a Greek Catholic priest to start coming to celebrate Divine Liturgy again in the church.
I’m not sure the status of the parish now, but will ask a friend who lives in Slovakia to see if he can find out.
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Aramis
Guest
The Dominican Latin Mass (or the Roman, which is almost identical) can easily be done at the Byzantine or Alexandrian Altar; the only adjustment needed is the subdeacon, if not ordained a deacon, goes through the deacon doors, and fewer steps. The foot of the altar prayers get said at the ambon.
Crowded, but doable. I’ve seen photos of it being done. (Roman priest traveling in the Holy Land.)
The Syriac Altar and the Roman a well suited to each other’s liturgies. The Syriac churches liturgies would be no less awkward at a Byzantine or Alexandrian altar than the Roman… for much the same reasons.
Crowded, but doable. I’ve seen photos of it being done. (Roman priest traveling in the Holy Land.)
The Syriac Altar and the Roman a well suited to each other’s liturgies. The Syriac churches liturgies would be no less awkward at a Byzantine or Alexandrian altar than the Roman… for much the same reasons.
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fwon2638
Guest
In Diocese of Parramatta (Sydney, Australia), FSSP celebrates TLM in a Coptic-rite parish (St Mark’s Coptic Catholic Church).
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Addai
Guest
When I was on vacation last summer I attended my first Maronite church, but I did so coincidentally during their big annual national meeting. Much to my chagrin there was no Qurbono, a Latin rite priest did a mass instead. So yes I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
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JW55
Guest
A number of years ago we had a priest of eastern European descent who brought in a priest of an Eastern Catholic Rite to celebrate mass in our church. Icons were brought in and the chruch was set up in the way that a church would look in an eastern church. It was very enligtening and was my first contact with the Eastern Catholic Church. At that time I thought they were all Eastern Orthodox. It was used as an educational opportunity for us to share the variety of ethnic traditons of worship in the Church.
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Ite_ad_Ioseph
Guest
What is an ambon?
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Diak
Guest
Yes to both, with the permission of the appropriate pastoral authority. I have assisted in serving Divine Liturgy, Vespers and other services in a number of Latin parishes, and we have a sort of “field kit” of analoys and icons as well as a portable iconostasis that can be deployed when necessary.
To answer the previous question, the ambo is a raised area in the center of the church and was a development of the bemah from the Jewish temple. In most Byzantine churches it is a continuation of the iconostasis and not really distinct from the solea.
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Ite_ad_Ioseph
Guest
So an ambo is like a dais? I’ve heard the word used as ‘podium’, but ambon with an n confused me. Maybe it was misspelled.
Pax
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Aramis
Guest
The ambon, in eastern use, is a projection of the dais in front of the royal doors. It is where the Gospel is read from, and where communion is distributed from
The Latin Ambo is a different thing; a lectern from which the Gospel is read, and from which the other readings are typically read.
Note that the sanctuary technically starts at the dais edge, but the Altar is everything behind the Iconostas.
The candlestands are for the faithful’s prayer intention candles; separate candles are in front of the icons on the iconostas, on the tetrapod, and on the holy table and/or proskomedia table. The tabernacle is on the Holy Table.
The Latin Ambo is a different thing; a lectern from which the Gospel is read, and from which the other readings are typically read.
Code:
A byzantine church in colored ASCII art.
+=============================+
| C C T C C | <- Chairs and Throne
|+-+ | <- Proskomedia Table
||P| +-----+ | <-Sanctuary/Altar
|+-+ | H | | <- Holy Table
| +-----+ |
| |
+--+ D +---+ R +---+ D +--+ <-Iconostas
| | D Deacon door, R Royal doors
|------------ A ------------| <-Dais edge
| \___/ | <-Ambon
| S S | <-Candlestands
| +-+ |
| |T| | <-Tetrapod
| +-+ |
| Nave |
| |
| |
| |
| |
+-----------+ +-----------+The candlestands are for the faithful’s prayer intention candles; separate candles are in front of the icons on the iconostas, on the tetrapod, and on the holy table and/or proskomedia table. The tabernacle is on the Holy Table.
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Ite_ad_Ioseph
Guest
What is the tetrapod for?
Pax
Pax
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wynd
Guest
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