Modern day Magicians and Illusionists question

[mikekle]

I was watching some of Dynamos act earlier and while he is quite impressive, if you look up any one of his tricks on Google, they are easily explained, so he is good at what he does, but he is not really a magician.

I did some researching online and I really wanted to find at least one person that used REAL magic in todays world, but could not find any, I was pretty surprised, as in the past, it seemed to be pretty common to come across real sorcerers, (biblical times mostly), but it seems today, this has either become something kept secret or knowledge man has forgotten how to do.

I really thought in todays world, especially with the internet and youtube, there would be alot of people ‘performing’ for the camera, but its all fake…? What happened to the REAL sorcerers? Maybe demons have stopped granting this power to people?

I did find the below statement online, I found it pretty interesting…

"There is a difference between the magicians spoken of in the Bible and the magicians and illusionists one sees today at parties and in stage show acts. The magicians in the Bible either gained their power from demonic forces or else they were little more than charlatans who pretended to have great knowledge or to discover secrets, tell fortunes, and predict things to come.

The word “magic” is actually used six times in the Bible, three times in the Old Testament and three times in the New Testament. However, the word, “magician(s)” is used 15 times. We know that the Egyptians worshipped many gods and that magic played an important part in the rituals of their high priests. It was through the deception of magic that the Egyptians were made to believe their gods actually had power. Genesis speaks of magicians in pharaoh’s service. But it is interesting to note that they were powerless to interpret pharaoh’s dream (Genesis 41:8), prompting pharaoh to send for Joseph, who interpreted it correctly because he spoke the words God gave him.

The book of Exodus speaks of magicians practicing what is called “secret arts” (Exodus 8:7), as they brought up frogs and thereby replicating God’s plague on the land of Egypt. Magic in this case was used in an attempt to mock God by mimicking the miracles God performed through Moses. Magic and sorcery played a major role in the pantheistic religion of Egypt. Its ancient documents record the magicians’ activities, one of the most prominent being the charming of serpents. These men were also self-styled “wise men” and “sorcerers”—the learned men of the day and the religious as well. Two of these men, named Jannes and Jambres, are mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:8. Any supernatural power they had came from Satan (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

 

[Cygnus2112]

Perhaps just as actual miracles are much more rare than apparent miracles, actual magic is much more rare than apparent magic.

And just as God would only perform miracles in order to allow people to be drawn to him, Satan would use magic only to distance them further from God.

Maybe, in our time, Satan finds it far more effective to distance people from the very concept of a supernatural realm, especially in our age where spiritual skepticism and atheism have already made significant ground.

 

[Francie3]

May I kindly say, try not to be too caught up in this interest?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=11416778
Divination and magic

"2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity. "

God bless!

 

[mikekle]

I remember the first time I saw David Blaine doing his thing, I was amazed but got a bad feeling about him, still do when I watch him on tv. I noticed he looks at people in a condescending way, almost like hes thinking…‘you pathetic humans, you get so excited about useless parlor tricks’… I just get bad vibes about him.

I also remember reading an account written by someone who saw him in person, on the street, this person said some of the people there watching, said out loud after he did some trick, that ‘this was of the devil’, but Blaine just ignored them and continued on. They said this trick Blaine did was not slight of hand or smoke and mirrors, I wish it had mentioned the actual trick but it did not.

If you think about it, society in general, has accepted this kind of thing, people laugh and joke when they do these tricks and always want more, they hire magicians for their kids birthday parties!! Im sure God is weeping all the while.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Most don’t even claim to have magical powers and even those who claim to have real magical powers (few and far between) have been debunked so thoroughly by people like the Amazing Randi that the thought of anyone actually having any of these powers is hysterical.

Today, the faces of “magic” (the so-called real kind, not the stage kind like Penn & Teller or Criss Angel) are people like Long Island Medium, Jonathan Edwards, etc. Ridiculous characters with no credibility at all.

society in general, has accepted this kind of thing, people laugh and joke when they do these tricks and always want more, they hire magicians for their kids birthday parties!! Im sure God is weeping all the while.

Why? How do you figure that God cares about illusions? How does illusion differ from any other great feat, like juggling or tight-rope walking?

 

[Skadi]

The magical arts are still existent today, however have never heard of anyone doing something of biblical scale like turning staffs into serpents. Todays brand of magic is practiced mostly by witch doctors, Wiccans, neo-pagans, and ceremonial magicians. Their brand of magic is much more shamanic, they dont try to turn object A into object B, but subtly influence things around them. Give themselves or a friend good luck, make good weather next spring, keep dark spirits and energies away, ect.

There are two possible reasons I would say for why the magic of men is not so powerful as it was reportedly in ancient times.

1. Such magic as present in the bible never actually occurred. Such magic is beyond the power of men and the ancient stories are the result of trickery, hearsay, exaggeration, drug use, and/or pandemonium. They may very well simply be folk legends or allegorical tales.
2. The other possibility is that such knowledge has been lost or destroyed over the centuries, likely by the rise of Christianity and Islam. We know for a fact much information about pagan religions has been burned and desecrated by Christians and Muslims, but we dont know what the lost knowledge contained. Maybe the knowledge of the magicians of old has been lost to the sands of time, or is now a closely guarded secret. This is possible, but less likely I feel, as places like China and Japan which have had little Christian or Muslim influence do not have men calling down lightning and such.

In the end I think its a little of both. No sane modern magic user will try and change say a cup into a plate, but who knows, maybe some time somewhere there existed a person with such knowledge.

 

[mikekle]

Another possibility is, whatever powers that aided the magicians in ancient times feel, they no longer need to do this in order to sway anyones feelings or opinions, as the state of the world is already in very bad shape.

I have a feeling all that ancient magic came from demonic sources, but I think the demons did this in an attempt to show people a glimpse of the other realm, but in many ways, it seems they have changed their views on this and today, they seem to want people to think there is no such place and nothing demonic exists.(the greatest trick of satan is him making everyone believe he does not exist), if alot of people were seen in modern times going about with obvious supernatural powers, and showing them off for everyone, then most people would have to admit there must be something larger going on behind the scenes, and that powers exist that we do not fully understand.

 

[Skadi]

Another possibility is, whatever powers that aided the magicians in ancient times feel, they no longer need to do this in order to sway anyones feelings or opinions, as the state of the world is already in very bad shape.

I have a feeling all that ancient magic came from demonic sources, but I think the demons did this in an attempt to show people a glimpse of the other realm, but in many ways, it seems they have changed their views on this and today, they seem to want people to think there is no such place and nothing demonic exists.(the greatest trick of satan is him making everyone believe he does not exist), if alot of people were seen in modern times going about with obvious supernatural powers, and showing them off for everyone, then most people would have to admit there must be something larger going on behind the scenes, and that powers exist that we do not fully understand.

From a christian point of view that would make sense, people are so cynical now alot of them probably would’t believe in magic if it slapped them in the face and burnt their house down. But im not christian, and do not believe magic is reliant on the aid of supernatural beings, or inherently evil, which is why I did not advance this theory.

 

[John_Lazarus]

I remember the first time I saw David Blaine doing his thing, I was amazed but got a bad feeling about him, still do when I watch him on tv. I noticed he looks at people in a condescending way, almost like hes thinking…‘you pathetic humans, you get so excited about useless parlor tricks’… I just get bad vibes about him.

I also remember reading an account written by someone who saw him in person, on the street, this person said some of the people there watching, said out loud after he did some trick, that ‘this was of the devil’, but Blaine just ignored them and continued on. **They **said this trick Blaine did was not slight of hand or smoke and mirrors, I wish it had mentioned the actual trick but it did not.

Rather vague accusation. Did they provide proof that it was not sleight of hand? Or was he just so good that “they” could not see what he was doing?

You realize that you are implying and suggesting – without any proof – that David Blaine practices sorcery. That’s tantamount to calumny, and at the very least bearing false witness. I am sure that is not something you meant to do.

If you think about it, society in general, has accepted this kind of thing, people laugh and joke when they do these tricks and always want more, they hire magicians for their kids birthday parties!! Im sure God is weeping all the while.

Or rolling His eyes.

 

[WiccanWoman]

I tend to think that a lot of allegedly “magickal” feats in the long past were first performed by those who had inadvertently stepped into scientific/natural facts unknown to mankind at the time… for instance, the creation of (a) fire. I’d be willing to bet that it was quite shocking to the first person who caused a fire by accidental use of flint or another striking element (causing a spark, tinder catching the spark, etc.), or by use of a warm coal which remained after a fire from a lightning strike went out (this is why even today we have forest fires, where even though a camp-fire is “put out,” it is not actually fully extinguished, and it comes back to life hours after the campers have left the area).

Other scientific facts were stumbled upon, such as the use of varying elements causing fire to burn in different colors (I think copper = blue, sulfur = yellow), the use of crystals to focus sunlight (eventually evolving into laser beams!), the invention or discovery of early “chemicals” such as bleach (found in urine - used in the early tanning process for leather), acids and bases and the eruption which occurs when mixing them together (i.e., vinegar and baking soda), antibiotics (moldy bread), etc. Such early scientific experiments taught to grade-school children nowadays would have been miracles to mankind during prehistory.

Some of those who were in tune with nature/science kept knowledge like this private, and they would use such knowledge to make themselves superior, important, even god-like, convincing others that only they could perform wonders like these, and if anyone else dared try, they would be struck dead. Women’s mysteries (childbirth, etc.) were passed from mother to daughter… the knowledge of herbal medicine and plants safe to eat or poisonous was immensely valuable, and our ancestors could not afford to lose one iota of it. Honorable medicine-men and medicine-women from varying tribes worldwide were appreciated and praised for their abilities to help their people, and to act as a go-between from man to God and back again, as that is all they knew. Those who were power-hungry, selfish and evil gained and used such knowledge for themselves to gain wealth and control others by fear… and it could happen still.

The potential for all amazing occurrences existed millions of years ago, even from the moment of creation; however, it takes mankind evolving enough, learning enough, observing enough, working enough and thinking enough to use the gathered wisdom to put the pieces together and discover/invent electricity, etc. That potential exists even now, and the longer mankind lives and works toward discovering more, more will be discovered.

This is when we come to the discussion of morality, of good vs. evil whether in a religion or not (as even those who follow no religion can be moral and good people). For instance, a cure for cancer would be a wonderful blessing, but if it involved taking innocent lives, would it still be “good?” Even without the answer to such a problematic question, it has to be acknowledged (by those of us who believe in [the concept of] God) that the information existed always, from the beginning of time, and mankind can find it only after hard work, and using the gifts provided to us by our Creator.