Modesty

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How can one decide just how much is modest enough? In some cultures, women must cover all skin up to their wrist and neck (with only the head and hands showing). Most conservative Catholics I know would feel that short-sleeve (and some say even well covering tank tops) are acceptably modest.

I have always wondered the following:
Just how low can the neckline be? How short can shorts be – or should I just stick with pants – or maybe dresses are better? Should I allow my four year old daughter to wear a bikini? Can I wear a midriff showing outfit to the beach, so long as at Mass it’s always covered? If my workout wear is form fitting, but my undergarments do not show is that okay? What about a keyhole back on the evening gown? If I wore a shirt to Mass that can up just above the knees when I sat down is this too short? Should I avoid putting my girls in ballet classes because the leotard and tights outfit are too form fitting?

Is there some sort of code or are we all to use our best judgement?
 
lissa70 said:
Is there some sort of code or are we all to use our best judgement?
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No, there’s not a code, and don’t let anyone tell you there is. Yes, please use your best judgement. You know what’s inappropriate and what’s not for yourself. Yes to the keyhole evening gown, no to short shorts. You knew that already, right?

It’s harder when dressing your little daughter. There are so many slutty clothes for children today, and it’s easy to say oh, she’s so innocent, it’s just cute on her. Well, no, it’s not cute. It’s setting yourself up for trouble when she’s suddenly too old to wear what she’s always worn. I vote for the one-piece swimsuit.

Ballet attire is not problematic. It has a purpose unrelated to immodesty. Ditto exercise wear for you.

The Church does not micromanage every aspect of our lives. I have every confidence in your ability to make good decisions about what to wear. Remember that you can err on either side of modesty. You don’t want to look like a streetwalker OR an Amish woman!

Betsy
 
lissa70 said:
How can one decide just how much is modest enough? In some cultures, women must cover all skin up to their wrist and neck (with only the head and hands showing). Most conservative Catholics I know would feel that short-sleeve (and some say even well covering tank tops) are acceptably modest.

I have always wondered the following:
Just how low can the neckline be? How short can shorts be – or should I just stick with pants – or maybe dresses are better? Should I allow my four year old daughter to wear a bikini? Can I wear a midriff showing outfit to the beach, so long as at Mass it’s always covered? If my workout wear is form fitting, but my undergarments do not show is that okay? What about a keyhole back on the evening gown? If I wore a shirt to Mass that can up just above the knees when I sat down is this too short? Should I avoid putting my girls in ballet classes because the leotard and tights outfit are too form fitting?

Is there some sort of code or are we all to use our best judgement?
Click to expand...
This is up for you to decide. Keep in mind that your body is a great gift and your husband should only see this gift.

Cleavage, short skirts, thongs and others are certainly not modest.

Prayer will answer your question.
 
It really depends on the time and the place. People wear bathing suits at the beach, and it is not immodest. When it’s hot, women can wear short, sleeveless dresses or tanktops and shorts. I don’t think it’s reasonable to go swimming in a “burkini” or wear so much clothing that you overheat in the summer.

As for your 4 year old, if anyone is going to be aroused by a 4 year old in a bikini then that person is so far gone that no amount of clothing is going to help them. It’s not reasonable to deny your daughters the chance to learn ballet because the outfits are tight.

Just use your judgment and be reasonable. I think we all know an immodest woman when we see one, and no one thinks that women in bathing suits or ballet dancers are immodest.

Obviously wearing shorts so short that your butt is falling out, or a shirt cut so low that you can see the breast from the side, or wearing a thong bathing suit with a top that only covers the nipples.
 
The easiest way to find out is to travel to various holy sights in Italy and Rome being dressed a little more provocatively each time, until the security guards stop you and tell you that you can’t go in dressed like that 😉

Then you’ll have a threshold for immodesty! Seriously, I visited Rome in 2005 and just this past October, and saw women… and also men… turned away at the monastery of Monte Cassino for immodest dress.
 
Is there some sort of code or are we all to use our best judgement?
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There is no code, and we are all to use our best judgment. The German Thomist philosopher Josef Pieper, in his tract On Prudence, argues that casuistry–the science of using reason and general moral norms to fabricate specific moral precepts–is overused and should be secondary to use of the virtue of prudence (only under the correct definition of prudence!). There are no ultra-specific rules in place for what is modest and what is not in every possible real-life situation, and it’s a fool’s errand to try and make them. We can only form our consciences and make prudential judgments for ourselves.
 
i dunno if i would call it a code, but there are certainly guide lines,
the church does teach us how to be modest, and since i go to the traditional Latin mass of the fssp, we have it not just taught, but strongly encouraged, some traditional masses even required this kind of modesty or no admittance into the church,

well, the guide lines are -
for the neck, only about 1 inch(or two finger lengths) bellow the collar bone,
for sleeves, in church they prefer just bellow the elbow or longer, but half way above the elbow is acceptable outside mass.
for skirts, it should be 6 inches at the least bellow the knees while you are sitting down.
no pants on woman are aloud in church, and it is strongly discouraged outside of church as well.
tee-shirts are also discouraged,
no see through tops,
clothes should not be form fitting either on the upper or lower half of your body.
and in church, girls must wear head coverings, it is wrong not to, it’s in the bible and was never taken out or made invalid, how could it? it was left out of vatican 2, but only because it was so widely practiced they didn’t feel the need to even mention it, but the reason we wear them is out of respect for Jesus truly present on the alter, and for the many angels in the church who are adoring Jesus…it doesn’t have to be a mantilla, i wear a cabby hat myself, just as long as it covers your head it’s ok…well nothing to wild either…
bikinis are absolutely forbidden, perhaps in private with only girls it might be ok, but absolutely not on the beach or in any public places.

the sin immodesty falls under is scandal, here is a catholic definition of scandal to help you understand it better -
“Any action or its omission, not necessarily sinful in itself, that is likely to induce another to do something morally wrong. Direct scandal, also called diabolical, has the deliberate intention to induce another to sin. In indirect scandal a person does something that he or she forsees will at least likely lead another to commit sin, but this is rather tolerated than positively desired.”

so you see, people have the opinion nowadays that they can dress however they want and it’s not their fault if others sin because of it, but this is a very uncharitable way to be, we must look out for eachother as well as ourselves,
people think that because the world is changing that it’s ok for us to change with it, but that’s wrong to, we are the ones who should be trying to change the world, it is by our example that we help others the most, and what kind of example are we showing for modesty by dressing just like everyone else?
we are catholics, we should be different, we should be set apart from the world, we should be little lambs of Jesus, *not *little lambs of the world…

i wish i could wear a dress everyday, but my job requires pants(factory work) although i still try to wear more loose fitting clothes, and shirts that cover bellow my hips…it’s not just so guys won’t look at me, it’s also out of respect and love for God, and out of imitation of our Blessed Mother…i don’t want to just do the least that is expected of me, i want to do as much as i can, God does so much for us, more then we could possibly deserve, i just want to do my best for Him…

well ok…as for ballet, you could probably ask your priest about that, it might be ok, but i’m not sure, it might depend on if there’s boys there or not

ok, hope this helps.
 
lissa70 said:
How can one decide just how much is modest enough? In some cultures, women must cover all skin up to their wrist and neck (with only the head and hands showing). Most conservative Catholics I know would feel that short-sleeve (and some say even well covering tank tops) are acceptably modest.

I have always wondered the following:
Just how low can the neckline be? How short can shorts be – or should I just stick with pants – or maybe dresses are better? Should I allow my four year old daughter to wear a bikini? Can I wear a midriff showing outfit to the beach, so long as at Mass it’s always covered? If my workout wear is form fitting, but my undergarments do not show is that okay? What about a keyhole back on the evening gown? If I wore a shirt to Mass that can up just above the knees when I sat down is this too short? Should I avoid putting my girls in ballet classes because the leotard and tights outfit are too form fitting?

Is there some sort of code or are we all to use our best judgement?
Click to expand...
I think the best “rule of thumb” would be to ask how will dressing in a certain way be an occasion of sin if it sexually excites a member of the opposite sex? This would include not only single individuals but those who are also married. If you are married, ask your husband or wife as to what turns them on. Obviously, the conversation is going to be very frank and honest. Although there is not a cultural rule per se, I think the one mentioned above is your best bet to dressing modestly.
 
What I consider is whether in normal activity someone else could see or be drawn to think of an area that is covered by a bikini (those are areas which I explained to my children should *never *be exposed except to one’s parents when one is little, a medical practitioner, and one’s spouse).

So, my skirts go below my knees so that when I sit my knees are still covered, my sleeves are long enough and neckline high enough so that someone could not inadvertently get a glimpse of what I’m trying to cover there, and my clothing hopefully loose enough that no one would be able to see the outline of anything underneath.

I’m kind of strict about the skirt length because (I know this may be a little nuts!) I saw the one scene in that Sharon Stone movie where she’s wearing a super-mini skirt… and that kind of made me understand why we should wear longer skirts.

Hope this helps at least give you an idea of where to start.
 
lissa70 said:
How can one decide just how much is modest enough? In some cultures, women must cover all skin up to their wrist and neck (with only the head and hands showing). Most conservative Catholics I know would feel that short-sleeve (and some say even well covering tank tops) are acceptably modest.

I have always wondered the following:
Just how low can the neckline be? How short can shorts be – or should I just stick with pants – or maybe dresses are better? Should I allow my four year old daughter to wear a bikini? Can I wear a midriff showing outfit to the beach, so long as at Mass it’s always covered? If my workout wear is form fitting, but my undergarments do not show is that okay? What about a keyhole back on the evening gown? If I wore a shirt to Mass that can up just above the knees when I sat down is this too short? Should I avoid putting my girls in ballet classes because the leotard and tights outfit are too form fitting?

Is there some sort of code or are we all to use our best judgement?
Click to expand...
Hi,

There’s no code, but i would suggest reading the gospel where Jesus taught that any man who looks at a woman lustfully commits adultery.

Therefore, any dress that causes a man look at a woman lustfully is not modest enough.

Neckline - not low enough to show cleavage
Shorts or pants - stick with pants
dresses - should end below the knee
bikini - please, no.
form fitting clothes - no.

Blessings.
 
I wouldn’t say that the Sharon Stone flashing her vag in a movie is the litmus test for skirts being too short. I see plenty of chicks wearing mini-skirts halfway up their bum crack and they still manage to hold their ‘modesty’. I think you can wear almost anything as long as it suits your body type; a lady with a massive boobs is going to look slutty in a dress with a very low neck line, but a lady with smaller boobs in the same dress may look elegant.
Neckline - not low enough to show cleavage
Shorts or pants - stick with pants
dresses - should end below the knee
bikini - please, no.
form fitting clothes - no.
Click to expand...
May as well become a nun. :rolleyes:
 
lissa70 said:
Is there some sort of code or are we all to use our best judgement?
Click to expand...
There is no dress code for Christians issued by the Church. The Catholic Faith teaches modesty, but the particulars are left to the prudential judgment of each individual. What constitutes modest clothing varies depending on the circumstances. What is modest for the beach is not modest for Mass. Use your best judgment.
 
Here is another set of guideline for modesty from PureFashion.

As other posters have pointed out, these are all guidelines and we are free to use our best judgment based on the situation.
 
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