Monarchy of the Father

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thinkandmull

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Does the Son of His existence ontologically to God the Father? Where has the Church taught on this specifically?

Thank! đź‘Ť
 
thinkandmull said:
Does the Son of His existence ontologically to God the Father? Where has the Church taught on this specifically?

Thank! đź‘Ť
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From The Greek And Latin Traditions Regarding The Procession Of The Holy Spirit of the Pontificial Council for Promoting Christian Unity (1995)
On the basis of Jn 15:26, this Symbol confesses the Spirit “to ek tou PatroV ekporeuomenon” (“who takes his origin from the Father”). The Father alone is the principle without principle (arch anarcoV) of the two other persons of the Trinity, the sole source (phgh) of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit therefore takes his origin from the Father alone (ek monou tou PatroV) in a principal, proper and immediate manner.1

1 St Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologica, Ia, q. 36, a. 3, 1um and 2um.
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCCUFILQ.HTM

St Thomas Aquinas in the *Summa Theologica *Q36 Excerpts:

“… the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father immediately, as from Him, and mediately, as from the Son; and thus He is said to proceed from the Father through the Son.”

“…He is said to proceed principally or properly from the Father, because the Son has this power from the Father.”

newadvent.org/summa/1036.htm
 
Thanks.

Would you happen to know where Aquinas speaks of the Trinity besides the Summa? I think in the Contra Gentiles as well. Are these the only two?
 
thinkandmull said:
Thanks.

Would you happen to know where Aquinas speaks of the Trinity besides the Summa? I think in the Contra Gentiles as well. Are these the only two?
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Book IV of Contra Gentiles, also Book I (natural reason). Also in Commentary on the Sentences. Another is in the treatise on the Trinity (De rationibus fedei) in the Compendium of Theology. Another is the Disputed Questions (De potentia) – the last four of ten. Of them all I think this has the best detail, and it was written before the Summa.
 
Wouldn’t we say that the Personhood the Son came from nothing? Or can a consciousness split into two philosophically speaking?

I was wondering if you also knew anything about the Chaldean reconciliation that happened with Rome under John Paul II with regard to the issue of nature vs personhood.

THANKS
 
thinkandmull said:
Wouldn’t we say that the Personhood the Son came from nothing? Or can a consciousness split into two philosophically speaking?

I was wondering if you also knew anything about the Chaldean reconciliation that happened with Rome under John Paul II with regard to the issue of nature vs personhood.

THANKS
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An internal procession is not an event in time. There is a communication. The Trinity in three Persons which are not independent. The eternal relations are the persons.

Chaldean:Therefore our Lord Jesus Christ is true God and true man, perfect in his divinity and perfect in his humanity, consubstantial with the Father and consubstantial with us in all things but sin. His divinity and his humanity are united in one person, without confusion or change, without division or separation. In him has been preserved the difference of the natures of divinity and humanity, with all their properties, faculties and operations. But far from constituting “one and another”, the divinity and humanity are united in the person of the same and unique Son of God and Lord Jesus Christ, who is the object of a single adoration.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_11111994_assyrian-church_en.html
 
I don’t like how that decree say the Son was “indissolubly united” united to His humanity though
 
thinkandmull said:
I don’t like how that decree say the Son was “indissolubly united” united to His humanity though
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I don’t know so much, but am good at research, but I do study often.

This may help. The quote is:“The Word of God, second Person of the Holy Trinity, became incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit in assuming from the holy Virgin Mary a body animated by a rational soul, with which he was indissolubly united from the moment of his conception.”
So, what is a normal human being? A person is not his immortal soul, or his intellect, alone, but rational soul and body. The human *rational soul and body *exist from a point in time of their conception. The Son, therefore, to incarnate, created a human body animated by an *immortal *human soul. That is why the divine and human natures are indissolubly united from conception.

I’m not sure what you are asking with: "By God’s choice sure, but metaphysically? "
 
It was God’s decision to united Jesus’s humanity and divinity forever. The union of humanity and divinity to not metaphysically entail that they cannot latter be divided by the ceasing of the humanity’s existence.

I thought it interesting also in the article on the Assyrian Church that it said “for the most part” the issue was based on misunderstanding. Does this imply that the Assyrian Church has abandoned some of its historical position. The decree does not go into detail
 
thinkandmull said:
It was God’s decision to united Jesus’s humanity and divinity forever. The union of humanity and divinity to not metaphysically entail that they cannot latter be divided by the ceasing of the humanity’s existence.

I thought it interesting also in the article on the Assyrian Church that it said “for the most part” the issue was based on misunderstanding. Does this imply that the Assyrian Church has abandoned some of its historical position. The decree does not go into detail
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No, it was understood as a linguistic misunderstanding by both sides, due to cultural and socio-political differences.
 
thinkandmull said:
The article Vico gave said it was MOSTLY a misunderstanding
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The classic theological terminology of “indissolubly united” is employed by Catholics as well:

Thomas Hughson, SJ, associate professor Emeritus of Theology at Marquette University
Connecting Jesus to Social Justice: Classical Christology and Public Theology
p119… you can access a preview of it here:
books.google.com/books?isbn=1442223960
 
Dear Vico, and anyone else who wants to chime in,

If three humans have an experience, they share the experiences but there are through “feelings” going on. I know in the Trinity there are Three Consciousness, there seems to be disagreement on whether there is three wills and reason (perhaps its mute), but are there three “feelings” of love and all, or just one. Is it possible for there just to be one?
 
thinkandmull said:
Dear Vico, and anyone else who wants to chime in,

If three humans have an experience, they share the experiences but there are through “feelings” going on. I know in the Trinity there are Three Consciousness, there seems to be disagreement on whether there is three wills and reason (perhaps its mute), but are there three “feelings” of love and all, or just one. Is it possible for there just to be one?
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The Most Holy Trinity is simple. There is just one essential divine will. “Jesus had a divine will and a human will.” God is unlike creatures because the persons are not independent.

Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:91. How did the two wills of the incarnate Word cooperate?
475
482
Jesus had a divine will and a human will. In his earthly life the Son of God humanly willed all that he had divinely decided with the Father and the Holy Spirit for our salvation. The human will of Christ followed without opposition or reluctance the divine will or, in other words, it was subject to it.

Modern Catholic Dictionary – perichoresisThe penetration and indwelling of the three divine persons reciprocally in one another. In the Greek conception of the Trinity there is an emphasis on the mutual penetration of the three persons, thus bringing out the unity of the divine essence. In the Latin idea called circumincession the stress is more on the internal processions of the three divine persons. In both traditions, however, the fundamental basis of the Trinitarian perichoresis is the one essence of the three persons in God.

The term is also applied to the close union of the two natures in Christ. Although the power that unites the two natures proceeds exclusively from Christ’s divinity, the result is a most intimate coalescence. The Godhead, which itself is impenetrable, penetrates the humanity, which is thereby deified without ceasing to be perfectly human.
 
thinkandmull said:
Dear Vico, and anyone else who wants to chime in,

If three humans have an experience, they share the experiences but there are through “feelings” going on. I know in the Trinity there are Three Consciousness, there seems to be disagreement on whether there is three wills and reason (perhaps its mute), but are there three “feelings” of love and all, or just one. Is it possible for there just to be one?
Click to expand...
The Trinity is one God because there but one divine nature or divine substance. The Son and Holy Spirit possess the same identical divine nature or substance as the Father. The Son has the divine nature from the Father and the Holy Spirit from both the Father and the Son. The Father has but one intellect and will. There is but one power of intellect and will in the Trinity which all three persons possess. Consequently, there are not three intellects or three wills in the Trinity as if there are three Gods.
 
Has this been defined? Someone on the Apologetics forum was saying the opposite recently
 
thinkandmull said:
Has this been defined? Someone on the Apologetics forum was saying the opposite recently
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There is ever only one divine will spoken of.
ST. LEO IX 1049-1054, Symbol of Faith *, From the epistle “Congratulamur vehementer” to Peter, Bishop of Antioch, April 13, 1053
Denzinger 343 For I firmly believe that the Holy Trinity, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, is one omnipotent God, and in the Trinity the whole Godhead is co-essential and consubstantial, co-eternal and co-omnipotent, and of one will, power, and majesty; the creator of all creation, from whom all things, through whom all things, in whom all things [Rom. 11:36] which are in heaven or on earth, visible or invisible. Likewise I believe that each person in the Holy Trinity is the one true God, complete and perfect.
THE VATICAN COUNCIL 1869-1870, Ecumenical XX (on Faith and the Church), SESSION III (April 24, 1870)
Denzinger 1782 [The one, living, and true God and His distinction from all things.] *

The holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Roman Church believes and confesses that there is one, true, living God, Creator and Lord of heaven and earth, omnipotent, eternal, immense, incomprehensible, infinite in intellect and will, and in every perfection; who, although He is one, singular, altogether simple and unchangeable spiritual substance, must be proclaimed distinct in reality and essence from the world; most blessed in Himself and of Himself, and ineffably most high above all things which are or can be conceived outside Himself [can. 1-4].
 
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