Morality of Live Action's Sting operations?

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canadianguy1143 said:
More people speak out:

ncregister.com/blog/can-you-lie-for-a-good-cause

Maybe Live Action’s sting operations are good for more than the obvious reasons as it exposes very dangerous thinking in Pro life circles and can assess who is playing with a full deck or not.
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Here’s where the logic fails, I think. It is morally licit to hurt someone, even to take a life, in order to save an innocent. How can it be morally illicit to lie in order to save those same innocents?

If it is always evil to lie, how can someone work as an undercover policeman or an FBI agent? Those are noble occupations even though they use deciet to get the bad guys.
 
Corki said:
If it is always evil to lie, how can someone work as an undercover policeman or an FBI agent? Those are noble occupations even though they use deciet to get the bad guys.
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I was wondering about this as well…is it acceptable for police to go undercover as “johns”, prostitutes, or drug buyers? To me they are ruining a person’s life by putting a mark on their records.

300 posts!!! 😃
 
Corki said:
Here’s where the logic fails, I think. It is morally licit to hurt someone, even to take a life, in order to save an innocent. How can it be morally illicit to lie in order to save those same innocents?

If it is always evil to lie, how can someone work as an undercover policeman or an FBI agent? Those are noble occupations even though they use deciet to get the bad guys.
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My Dad told me once, “A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous”. I think this applies to here. People are reading a few lines from the Catechism and applying it to something that doesn’t really apply here. The people here who are saying that Live Action is committing sin by lying are not clergy or theologians. They have absolutely no formal training whatsoever.
 
The sting operation was the same as a sting operation that might have been conducted by law enforcement personnel, who do sting operations all the time.

Would it have been better for them to have hired an actual sex trafficker to go in and ask the questions? I don’t think so.

When someone is breaking the law, and not reporting sex trafficking is breaking the law, sting operations are needed.
 
JimG said:
The sting operation was the same as a sting operation that might have been conducted by law enforcement personnel, who do sting operations all the time.

Would it have been better for them to have hired an actual sex trafficker to go in and ask the questions? I don’t think so.

When someone is breaking the law, and not reporting sex trafficking is breaking the law, sting operations are needed.
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great post! 👍
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
I wish you worded it in simpler term, but looking at your link I’d have to agree. What’s your opinion on this?
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Detraction defined in this way: Detraction is the unjust violation of the good reputation of another by revealing something true about him.

How can it be detraction when law enforcement works on behalf of JUSTICE?
Working for justice makes the action just - not unjust.
 
What you think about the following?

Some “undercover pro-choice” volunteers going to Live Action meetings bringing addresses of abortionists’ homes and pictures of the abortionists’ families? And filming the conversations of Live Action members of when and how to target the abortionists for protests. Perhaps recording conversations of some Live Action members talking about how cool that Scott Roeder killed abortionist Dr. Tiller. Or worse, recording some hot heads talking some loose talk about how maybe shooting some the of the abortionists and their families will bring the prolife message home that abortion is murder.

Be careful. Your enemies will do that the same tricks as you do.
 
dusty_david said:
What you think about the following?

Some “undercover pro-choice” volunteers going to Live Action meetings bringing addresses of abortionists’ homes and pictures of the abortionists’ families? And filming the conversations of Live Action members of when and how to target the abortionists for protests. Perhaps recording conversations of some Live Action members talking about how cool that Scott Roeder killed abortionist Dr. Tiller. Or worse, recording some hot heads talking some loose talk about how maybe shooting some the of the abortionists and their families will bring the prolife message home that abortion is murder.

Be careful. Your enemies will do that the same tricks as you do.
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I’ve been active in pro-life work for 40+ yrs.
I’ve NEVER heard anyone talking about killing abortionists.
NOT EVER. Never heard anyone rejoicing about the murder of abortionists.

That’s what I think about your scenario. IMO, it’s a no go; it wouldn’t happen.
 
dusty_david said:
What you think about the following?

Some “undercover pro-choice” volunteers going to Live Action meetings bringing addresses of abortionists’ homes and pictures of the abortionists’ families? And filming the conversations of Live Action members of when and how to target the abortionists for protests. Perhaps recording conversations of some Live Action members talking about how cool that Scott Roeder killed abortionist Dr. Tiller. Or worse, recording some hot heads talking some loose talk about how maybe shooting some the of the abortionists and their families will bring the prolife message home that abortion is murder. Be careful. Your enemies will do that the same tricks as you do.
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The same as “undercover drug dealers” going to police investigation meetings and catching on tape a party to celebrate the murder of a “big fish” or a pimp by a police officer.

Or what about this one: volunteers in a green environment organization rejoicing and learning from the crimes of their hero, the “UnaBomber”. Oh and because I recycle and I make my own cleaning products, I take it that I must be a terrorist as well.
 
Just pointing out that whatever tactics Live Action uses may be also used by the abortion rights crowd against the prolife movement. Also public support for the prolife movement may be affected if the abortion rights people frame this sting operation as underhanded.

The best example of a backfire is the Operation Rescue blockade of the clinics. It got publicity. But it also made the abortion clinics look like victims. And now there is a “bubble zone” around clinics.

Study military strategy. Commanders knew what ever tactics they used will be studied by their enemies and used against them. Do you want a counter sting operation against prolife movement? Maybe some heavily edited video of some crazy wing nuts babbling how abortionists should be executed? Which would then be presented in the media and on the internet as the voice of prolife.

Just saying be careful of what you do. You want to win the war, not a battle.
 
dusty_david said:
Just pointing out that whatever tactics Live Action uses may be also used by the abortion rights crowd against the prolife movement. Also public support for the prolife movement may be affected if the abortion rights people frame this sting operation as underhanded.

The best example of a backfire is the Operation Rescue blockade of the clinics. It got publicity. But it also made the abortion clinics look like victims. And now there is a “bubble zone” around clinics.

Study military strategy. Commanders knew what ever tactics they used will be studied by their enemies and used against them. ** Do you want a counter sting operation against prolife movement? Maybe some heavily edited video of some crazy wing nuts babbling how abortionists should be executed? Which would then be presented in the media and on the internet as the voice of prolife.**

Just saying be careful of what you do. You want to win the war, not a battle.
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… and I’m saying that your notion of drama, drama, drama
is very far removed from actual pro-life thought and action.
 
HickmanJosh said:
Hi ive seen the recent videos released by live action and frankly i ind the astonishing but i was wondering about the morality of these videos, specifically ends justifying means: lying in order to do good(expose abuse). :confused:
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Acting in a sting isn’t the same as lying.

If it were, all acting would be a sin.

Is it a sin for cops to go undercover and act as prostitutes or johns to stop prostitution?

Would it have been a sin to act as a jew in a concentration camp in order to expose what the government was doing during the holocaust?

If the government allows the immoral destruction of innocent lives, someone has to do something to stop it.

Acting isn’t the same as lying.
 
CCC 2488: “The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.”

CCC 2489: “No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it.”

It’s not a case of the end justifying the mean, because the mean here is not immoral.
 
JaredR said:
CCC 2488: “The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.”

CCC 2489: “No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it.”

It’s not a case of the end justifying the mean, because the mean here is not immoral.
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Wonderful.
I applaud you.

:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
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