N
newsocrates
Guest
I can’t recall ever suggesting issuing interest free loans to buy primary residences. I never said that. I’m arguing something much deeper. That it’s wrong period to issue loans for things that are basic needs, and that it’s doubly wrong to exact interest on those loans issued for basic needs. My food analogy above explained this, or at least I thought.
Bullying people into taking loans to solve basic needs, such as housing, is extortion. You haven’t countered this argument, so I suppose it stands until someone can produce a real argument to the contrary. Are you in the banking industry? Are you a real estate investor?
Naturally, if there are no loans issued for primary housing then the idea of “changing the loan terms” and using the home for different reasons becomes a moot point. It can’t happen where loans don’t exist for the purchase of primary homes.
“And without banks who is going to loan money?” The point is that loans aren’t needed for basic housing. This system didn’t exist for thousands of years, I’m sure we can find away. That aside, it’s also equally true that banks aren’t needed in order to create credit systems. Localities can create their own systems of exchange if they wanted to. The fact of the issue is that banks aren’t really needed if enough people resisted and stopped playing their game.
“Without banks, nobody can create money to loan”. This just isn’t true. Federal, state and local governments can coin and create their own money if desired/needed. It would be great if the federal government monetized it’s debt with the Fed and then refused to accept any further currency from them since they really aren’t needed for the common good. The banks want you to believe they are needed, but in reality their role is much more limited.
“And who’s going to deposit savings if no interest is paid to depositors?” This is short-sighted. People can partner with other people/firms and lend money privately, or banks can simply take on a more traditional and conservative role of pulling private lenders and borrowers together for entrepreneurial partnerships. Nothing wrong there. But again, we are now in the sphere of loans for production, not consumption/basic needs- huge difference!
Of Bernanke, deflation, etc…Falling prices isn’t deflation. Falling prices can be a good thing, especially if they are jacked up artificially to the dismay of many people. Money shortages are a bad thing though, which can cause falling prices. While the fed is actually printing alot of money, there is a shortage in the sense that most people don’t have access to it since these dollars are going to buying bad real estate assets and also strengthening the reserves of banks. Again it’s that money monopoly thing that just seems entirely arbitrary.
“As for the storehouses of food…” Aside from the fact that you missed the illustrative point on usury, the funny thing is that the rising of food prices that you fear in the analogy is exactly what happened to the real estate market. In the analogy many can’t access food, which they have a right to. In our circumstance many can’t truly own a home, which is equally an injustice. The issue isn’t one of price control or rationing, but a simple question of justice: is it just that a relative few control basic needs and access to money while many people do not? This violates distributive justice. Hoarding property, food, money, land, etc, are all just different manifestations of greed/usury.
“So where is the usury”…it’s in the fact that people don’t have control of money to begin wtih and are forced to take loans to buy houses in this matrix like money system we live in. Usury isn’t about high or low interest rates. It’s about imposing loans and exacting interest on things that people ought to have fair and adequate access to without going into debt or becoming impoverished in some way. Food, medical treatment, a home are all basic needs that human beings have. They shouldn’t be shackled with debt in order to obtain them. They aren’t free either, but debt isn’t needed.
“one final thought…” you think we aren’t in a depression? We already are in a position that you fear, pricisely because of the things you do not fear or seem to be aware of!
Thanks for the dialogue, it’s been quite interesting…