Morally Justified to Switch Parishes

[KnightErrant]

Hello Everyone,

I’m having some issues at my home parish and was wondering if I would be justified in seeking a new parish or if I was morally obligated to stick it out.

I’ve had some issues recently, related to depression and some past trauma and I attempted to contact my parish priest, that I thought I had a good rapport with, if he could help me through this and hear my confession. He, in no few words, told me that he didn’t have the time to talk to me.

I was under the impression that if someone asked for help or if they asked if you could hear your confession, a priest said “yes” regardless if it was convenient or not or even led to physical harm of the priest.

There are some other administrative decisions I disagree with too. I know obedience is good but I don’t think a person should have to pay and register to attend the only Sunday obligation mass in the county(There is a big Catholic conference this weekend in my county and they aren’t offering an option for mass anywhere else other than the conference.)

All this on top of formerly friendly parishioners becoming uppity around me leads me to explore the option of checking out another parish. This last thing may be a universal thing of some cradle Catholics sometimes looking down on newbie converts but it still makes it difficult to focus to worship God.

Again, just curious if you fine individuals think it is okay to seek out another parish or should I try to stick it out.

Thanks!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m confused.
You say your parish is only offering Sunday Mass at some paid conference and it’s the only Mass option in the county, and then you seem to be saying you could switch to another parish and there’s a Mass at the other parish?

If there’s another Mass option that close, then I would think anybody who doesn’t want to attend the conference can just go to Mass at the other parish. You can go to Mass anywhere there’s a Mass.

Having said all that, you do not have a moral obligation to keep attending in your parish. See if you can register with another parish; even if not, you’re still allowed to attend the other parish for mass and confession and other things. If you need matrimony or baptism or a funeral, you may be sent to your registered parish first and the pastor there would need to give permission for you to have this somewhere else.

Edited to add, Horton makes a good point about priests having a lot of demands on their time and also, your priest is not your psychiatrist. He may have put you off because your issues, wanting him to help you through issues related to depression and trauma, are not really his area to address. We have no way of knowing if he tried to set the boundary tactfully with you and you just missed seeing that or took it the wrong way, or if perhaps he was in a hurry to perform some other priestly duty and did not come off as tactful or understanding, or if maybe he thought being direct was the best way to handle the situation.

Regardless of that, your expectation that a priest just drop everything and be present for you whenever you want to talk is unrealistic. Even a mental health professional would likely set some boundaries as to when you can contact them. It’s reasonable for a busy priest to do the same.

Likewise, it’s possible that you’re expecting too much from fellow parishioners or that your judgment is off because you are stressed/ upset from your other “issues”.

Don’t expect the grass to necessarily be any greener elsewhere.

 

[amazingcatholic]

You are not morally obligated. Even if you were, you could still go to confession and go there for Mass. I would either try going to a different parish and call the priest or go to Confession at the other parish if you need advice. Believe me, calling works wonders!

 

[Horton]

I was under the impression that if someone asked for help or if they asked if you could hear your confession, a priest said “yes” regardless if it was convenient or not or even led to physical harm of the priest.

Priests are similar to others who run a large company or business. Their time is stretched to the limits. If the priest said he didn’t have time right then, he probably really didn’t have the time at that moment. I work in a parish and I see how extremely busy our priests are. No priest is obligated to drop everything to listen to a person who wants to talk to them. What if the priest is on the way to the hospital to comfort a family who just lost a child? What is the priest is going to the nursing home to say Mass? What if the priest is getting ready to celebrate a wedding? The priest(s) have the care of ALL souls in the parish and sometimes they have to prioritize.

All this on top of formerly friendly parishioners becoming uppity around me leads me to explore the option of checking out another parish. This last thing may be a universal thing of some cradle Catholics sometimes looking down on newbie converts but it still makes it difficult to focus to worship God.

I am a convert and have never experienced this in any parish I’ve lived in. I think it may be just your perception of things.

 

[Irishmom2]

Anger issues? Prayer would seem to be the most logical thing to do.

The OP said nothing that would lead us to believe they have anger issues.

 

[1ke]

I’ve had some issues recently, related to depression and some past trauma and I attempted to contact my parish priest, that I thought I had a good rapport with, if he could help me through this and hear my confession. He, in no few words, told me that he didn’t have the time to talk to me.

I was under the impression that if someone asked for help or if they asked if you could hear your confession, a priest said “yes” regardless if it was convenient or not or even led to physical harm of the priest.

Priests can be very busy these days, particularly in areas of shortage. Without knowing the details, perhaps he was brusque or perhaps you interpreted it that way.

In general, a priest will try to make accommodations for confession. But if you are asking him to counsel you on depression, he may feel he is not qualified to do that. You need to seek a qualified mental health professional.

There are some other administrative decisions I disagree with too. I know obedience is good but I don’t think a person should have to pay and register to attend the only Sunday obligation mass in the county(There is a big Catholic conference this weekend in my county and they aren’t offering an option for mass anywhere else other than the conference.)

That seems a bit unusual. Perhaps this is something to point out to the bishop-- that he is not providing masses for those who are not attending the conference.

However, if you do not have a mass to attend, you do not have an obligation.

All this on top of formerly friendly parishioners becoming uppity around me leads me to explore the option of checking out another parish. This last thing may be a universal thing of some cradle Catholics sometimes looking down on newbie converts but it still makes it difficult to focus to worship God.

perhaps your observations are colored by your current state of mental health. People may not in fact be “looking down” on you. This is your assumption, not necessarily a fact.

Again, just curious if you fine individuals think it is okay to seek out another parish or should I try to stick it out.

You are a member of your geographic parish, but you are free to attend mass and other activities at any parish you would like.

 

[nightshade]

Are you in the diocese of Birmingham?

 

[PetraG]

a) You don’t need a moral justification to change parishes. You only need to live in a diocese where the bishop has directed the pastors to receive members of the faithful as parishioners who are from outside the geographical boundaries of their parish. Most dioceses in the US are like that.
b) While the faithful do have the right to the sacraments, we don’t have the right to have the sacraments dispensed at the time and in the manner of our choosing. We also have the duty, as our state in life allows, to support the Church (including our particular church) and to assist the poor in their need.
(c ) It isn’t too surprising that a pastor with no time would say that he has no time in a way that uses “no few words.” Pastors do not have an infinite storehouse of time. Too often, they don’t even have a sufficient storehouse of time, and constantly run the risk of exhaustion.
(d) The impression that a priest has to comply with every request for his attention without regards to his other duties is incorrect. If you think about it, it isn’t even possible.
(e) I’m not quite sure what you mean by having to pay to go to the only Mass that will suffice to meet your Sunday obligation. I’m hoping you misunderstood about that. It is not uncommon, for instance, for a Catholic conference to require tuition to attend the sessions but not to require tickets or tuition to attend the Mass that is associated with the conference. It may be that you were being asked to go to the Mass that was scheduled or situationed differently (or both) instead of being able to attend Mass at your accustomed time or place or both without paying tuition being a requirement.

In way of encouragement, I’d like to relate that on one occasion I went to my pastor in great need of his attention but he was unfortunately unable to give me as much as a few minutes, as he had an appointment that he was not certain he could make even by leaving immediately. Praise the Lord, however, because someone else was provided to meet the immediate need I had, not by the pastor but, as it were, “by chance.” This kind of thing has happened for me again and again.

Other times, however, we find ourselves among the poor who suffer from true need and find no one there to provide what we cannot provide for ourselves. The “poor” aren’t guaranteed to be someone else. The faithful sometimes find themselves with an unmet need. In those times, we need to turn directly to Our Lady, Comforter of the Afflicted, and Our Lord Himself, who identified help given to the afflicted as help given directly to Himself.

Having been through depression, I’d say it is unlikely that your pastor is going to be your primary resource, your “Simon of Cyrene.” Think about this, too: anxiety disorders of various kinds afflict nearly 20% of the adult US population each year. How could a pastor be the primary support of his depressed parishioners if they suffer from depression at even 1/3 of that rate? Clearly, this is a matter where the faithful who suffer will usually have to find their support from other laypersons, rather than from their pastor.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

even led to physical harm of the priest.

Er, that’s a bit extreme don’t you think?

There is a big Catholic conference this weekend in my county and they aren’t offering an option for mass anywhere else other than the conference.)

A mass on Saturday evening can satisfy the obligation.

All this on top of formerly friendly parishioners becoming uppity around me leads me to explore the option of checking out another parish. This last thing may be a universal thing of some cradle Catholics sometimes looking down on newbie converts but it still makes it difficult to focus to worship God.

I’m sorry you have to deal with such things.

 

[Thomasbradley312]

If the parish isn’t feeding you spiritually there is absolutely no reason to stay.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Reading between the words, there seems to be some anger. Or at least that is what I sense.

I thought you were against judging.

 

[PetraG]

All this on top of formerly friendly parishioners becoming uppity around me leads me to explore the option of checking out another parish. This last thing may be a universal thing of some cradle Catholics sometimes looking down on newbie converts but it still makes it difficult to focus to worship God.

In an ultimate sense, it will be necessary to come to a merciful attitude towards those who have failed you. In the short term, however, you may find that changing to another parish may be something you need in order to take care of your anxiety and depression first. As the airlines put it, you should expect to have to get your own oxygen mask on before helping others to get to theirs. Likewise, you may have to get to a place where you are on a more even keel emotionally before you can tackle coming to a charitable view towards people who couldn’t give you everything you might have wished they had to give when you were going through a difficult time. In the meantime, you can pray for them as you would for an enemy, even if you may find later that the situation really wasn’t so adversarial as it felt at the time. You can always pray for them as if they were real enemies; it won’t steer you wrong whether they are or they aren’t.

 

[CRV]

I was under the impression that if someone asked for help or if they asked if you could hear your confession, a priest said “yes” regardless if it was convenient or not

Can. 843 §1 “Sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them.” (Bold emphasis is mine).
and
Can. 986 §1 "All to whom by virtue of office the care of souls is committed, are bound to provide for the hearing of the confessions of the faithful entrusted to them, who reasonably request confession, and they are to provide these faithful with an opportunity to make individual confession on days and at times arranged to suit them. "(Bold emphasis is mine).
and
Can. 986 §2 "In an urgent necessity, every confessor is bound to hear the confessions of Christ’s faithful, and in danger of death every priest is so obliged. "(Bold emphasis is mine).

Hence scheduled confessions. The priest also has the right to refuse to hear a asked for confession outside of the scheduled times, if he judges it is unreasonable/inopportune to do so - e.g. lack of time before Mass begins , if he has to leave for an appointment, or if he has someone already waiting for him for counseling etc.

Though with that said, most priests do lean towards a more pastoral approach to these requests for confession outside the scheduled hours - if it is possible.

As others have stated you are free to attend Mass at another parish. If there is a Saturday Vigil Mass offered in this parish, as this would fulfill your Sunday obligation, or perhaps one is available in another parish nearby?

Regarding the reactions of other parishoners, yes it can be hard to try to “break in” to an established congregation or groups of friends, cliques etc. Some parishes, people are there for Mass only and not looking for friendships or social interaction with others as their needs are met outside the parish in their own families/friends etc. - all of which does not meet your needs for social interaction/acceptance. Even just hoping that others will talk with you after Mass some of the time can sadly be too much to ask (speaking from the perspective of my own and a friends experience).

So, try another parish and see how it goes there for you. Keep in mind, it may be the same as the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence!

 

[KnightErrant]

Thanks for all of your replies. I will attempt to clarify where needed.

The paid conference is from Friday night until Sunday afternoon.

I will have to drive over an hour away to another county (and incidentally another diocese) to start attending mass somewhere else.

Not that I have the wherewithal to do so, but if I wanted to somehow contact the bishop about the local parishes not offering masses in my county as I think someone on here suggested, I couldn’t because he is going to be at the conference.

I recognize that a priest is not a psychiatrist. However, a few parishioners that I had become friends with had suggested to me that I contact this particular priest (in addition to my regular therapist and psychiatrist, whom I see on a regular basis) to discuss my past trauma and maybe come up with ways to cope that the traditional psychiatric therapy hasn’t got at.

This was and will be my only attempt at contacting this priest and maybe only Roman Catholic priest about this kind of issue.

As there were no other past attempts to try and talk to him, he had never attempted to set a boundary with me. If he felt unqualified or had other priestly duties, he could have simply said.

My expectation of priests to hear confessions or help people when they need to comes from various talks and interviews by Bishop Barron. Most of which were focusing on the California bill to force priests to report certain things heard in confession to the authorities. I see now that Bishop Barron was just speaking candidly and not literally as canon law seems to favor the priest and not the laity in instances related to the issues discussed in this thread.

I understand that priests are busy. I had a lot of respect for priests. They do a lot. However, psychiatrists and businessmen aren’t ordained. They can take time off. They haven’t given their lives over to be stand-in’s for Christ.

A priest should be on 100% of the time. If someone needs help, they should help them, make arrangements to help them, or see to it that someone else can. This just makes sense to me from a pastoral perspective.

Various posters have said that the grass may not be as green elsewhere. This is not encouraging for Roman Catholicism. I am considering leaving the church over this.

If anyone reading this is willing, I would appreciate it if you would pray for me. Thanks.

Edit: I never demanded that he help me right then and there. When I first contacted him, it was in email form (His official parish email was posted on the website and I was told this was the protocol.) to see if I could schedule some time to meet with him. He called me later that day and told me that he didn’t have the time to do that in the future and didn’t elaborate.

I just thought that priests had the “extreme” demand on them based on what Bishop Barron had said. I see now that is not what the code of canon law states and that is fine.

 

[Clare]

Maybe the priest was just having an off day? They are allowed to be grumpy too, can you call and make an appointment with him?

In regards to changing parishes, if you want to change you can, I go to a different parish at different times of the year depending on my working schedule.

Maybe look into the conference and ask around and see what others in your parish are doing if they aren’t going either, maybe you could do a car share for the trip to a neighbouring church?

 

[PetraG]

A priest should be on 100% of the time. If someone needs help, they should help them, make arrangements to help them, or see to it that someone else can. This just makes sense to me from a pastoral perspective.

For giving Annointing of the Sick or other emergency matters, yes.
For non-emergencies, no.

It isn’t possible. Worldwide, there are just over 3,000 Catholics per priest. No one can be available to help 3,000 people at all times whenever they need it. More to the point, a priest has to guard time for his own prayer life, for resting and for taking care of other personal needs. He’d be showing up looking as if he were pulled through a knothole backwards if he tried to be what you seem to expect.

Various posters have said that the grass may not be as green elsewhere. This is not encouraging for Roman Catholicism. I am considering leaving the church over this.

Do you think you’re going to find some other religion with clergy who are more available?

God is infinitely available, and even God leaves us to have periods of spiritual dryness from time to time. No human being can be available all of the time. (We’re not even “there” for ourselves all of the time!!)