More on Spiritual Pride / Judging Others

[wellab]

I read through some of the posts on the subject of Spiritual Pride and Judging Others. Some is a little helpful, some is still vague to me. Let me explain a couple detailed examples of what I am dealing with and see if the answers to the original thread labeled “Spiritual Pride / Judging Others” still applies as stated.

Example A) hubby likes to listen to music that I find very offensive mostly because of the sexual innuendo and implicit and explicit lyrics. He does not understand that it bothers me so much that he listens to it, even the car with me there. He has no regard for my moral unsettledness about the music and what it says about our society. He claims he just likes the beat of the music, doesn’t listen to the lyrics, and he doesn’t do what the songs say (sexual acts and so forth). I cannot get through to him how evil this is, and I cannot listen without being affected by it. He listens to music and watches movies both of which put women in precarious sexual situations and he does not get it, I don’t like the tempation of it all. How do I deal with this in my marriage without judging my hubby?

Example B) people other than my hubby do things that really upset me, what is most important, that I follow the teachings of the Church and/or help direct others to do what the Church teaches (supposing that I am dealing with other Catholics)? I really don’t want to condone other’s sinning ways and let them not realize their errors, but is that my first duty to being a good Catholic? I am really confused on this issue. I mean do I let others that are doing sexually explicit things just get away with it, do I not stand up for the morally correct things in a Christian world view? What am I supposed to do that advances me and others in a positive moral way, without judging or becoming like a preacher, as many in my family are now calling me?

All of the immorality going on, that I am not sensitive too sense rejoining the Church in recent years is driving me nuts, and I am becoming more cynical and hateful of others that do the obnoxious and immoral things that I detest so much.

Please help me.
A Catholic in Crisis.

 

[shannin]

wellab:

Example A) hubby likes to listen to music that I find very offensive mostly because of the sexual innuendo and implicit and explicit lyrics. He does not understand that it bothers me so much that he listens to it, even the car with me there. He has no regard for my moral unsettledness about the music and what it says about our society. He claims he just likes the beat of the music, doesn’t listen to the lyrics, and he doesn’t do what the songs say (sexual acts and so forth). I cannot get through to him how evil this is, and I cannot listen without being affected by it. He listens to music and watches movies both of which put women in precarious sexual situations and he does not get it, I don’t like the tempation of it all. How do I deal with this in my marriage without judging my hubby?
*I wouldn’t like it either. I think you should keep on speaking out against this. You are not judging your husband - you are judging the immoral music and movies that he listens to and watches. *

Example B) people other than my hubby do things that really upset me, what is most important, that I follow the teachings of the Church and/or help direct others to do what the Church teaches (supposing that I am dealing with other Catholics)? I really don’t want to condone other’s sinning ways and let them not realize their errors, but is that my first duty to being a good Catholic? I am really confused on this issue. I mean do I let others that are doing sexually explicit things just get away with it, do I not stand up for the morally correct things in a Christian world view? What am I supposed to do that advances me and others in a positive moral way, without judging or becoming like a preacher, as many in my family are now calling me?
*It depends on the situation. For example, I work with a man that sometimes takes the Lord’s name in vain. What I do is say a silent prayer to Jesus to forgive that person. *

I have a casual friend that dates a married man and I tell her right to her face that she is commiting a serious mortal sin by commiting adultery. I have another friend that doesn’t go to Mass anymore and I also tell her that she’s wrong - all Catholics need Mass and the Eucharist.

Speaking out against sin doesn’t necessarily mean that we are judging the person. Just look at how Mother Angelica tells it like it is without judging the person.

All of the immorality going on, that I am not sensitive too sense rejoining the Church in recent years is driving me nuts, and I am becoming more cynical and hateful of others that do the obnoxious and immoral things that I detest so much.
Wait a minute here, WE ALL SIN. Jesus didn’t hate the sinner - he hated the sin and we should try to be like Him. Being hateful and cynical is also wrong.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

Regarding your husband, you may not get anywhere by concentrating on the evilness of the music – it sounds like he simply doesn’t believe there’s anything wrong with it. Instead of concentrating on the message of the lyrics, focus on how it makes you feel – this takes the heat off your husband, and he might be more willing to listen, out of respect for you.

Regarding other people, it depends on the situation. If you know a Catholic who is doing something sinful, and he (or she) doesn’t know it’s sinful, then you would be performing a spiritual work of mercy by informing that person. Even there, your approach is important. If you take a harsh, negative, accusatory tone, what you say will likely fall on deaf ears. Same thing goes if you sound the least bit smug, arrogant, sarcastic, or holier-than-thou. If it’s a situation where you can teach by example, then do so – it’s a far better path. Or, if the situation fits, you could say something like “I used to do such-and-such, then I found out it’s actually considered a sin”.

You have to be sure of your facts – in some cases, it’s clear-cut (like premarital sex), but in other situations, beware of assuming sin exists, when the issue is only a matter of personal opinion.

If the people are not Catholic and simply don’t share our beliefs, then it’s best just to pray for them. Speaking to them of sin is just going to get you branded as a meddlesome troublemaker, at best. Have they asked you to tell them about Catholic Belief? If yes, feel free to share, but if not, they will likely respond to the effect of “Don’t try to shove your religion down my throat”. We may feel that certain behaviors do or do not fit within a Christian world view, but not everybody has a Christian world view.

Some people think it’s their obligation to beat other people about the head to get them to change their beliefs and behavior, but that approach just doesn’t work, and only makes enemies. Whatever message you have, people need to be ready to hear it – otherwise, it’s just badgering, not communicating. Pray for the Holy Spirit to touch them.

St. Francis tells us to always preach the Gospel, and when necessary, use words. You can accomplish a lot just with your own behavior, attitude, and good example! If you don’t know a person well enough for that to work, then you probably don’t know him well enough to be “correcting” him. Pray – that’s always appropriate!

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[wellab]

Shannin,

I know being cynical and hateful of people is wrong. I should be more hateful of Satan for taking my disposition of being sensitive in nature to things and twisting it to be hating of people. Instead of just hating the sins, I start hating people, including my husband. I feel like I am in a pit, a pit I never noticed before I came back to the Church, and now everything sinful bothers me. It is probably scrupulosity. But I don’t know how to decide when to speak up about a sin others commit that is harmful to themselves and when to just worry about what I am doing. I don’t know how to love people, and hate only sins. I can love some people I know are basically good people getting duped by Satan. But people close to me, I have a harder time loving. And I can see why they hate my preaching. I am a hatefilled person. It is like I hate what people do, like God hates sins of everyone, and I hate people that hurt my God. It’s ironic, cause I hate people like myself too.

What I want to know is practicalities. What should I do when I see a sin being commited, or hear one? What do I do right then, right when I see or hear it? Instead of being filled with hatred right then, being prideful, what do I do instead?

Sue

 

[st_ignatius110]

Sue,

Usually when I have questions like this I go to confession, and then after confession I ask my priest.

I will say this. Many times people will be doing something wrong but first, we cannot expect an unbeleiver to act as a Christian. I would also say that many times our actions speak louder then words. Saint Francis of Assisi said to , " Preach the Gospel, and when neccessary use words." I am not saying to never speak up when someone is sinning, but what I am saying is that speaking up is not always neccessary. Many times it helps when we live a life of godliness in front of others.

 

[Didi]

Do you pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy? I find it very helpful in praying for the sins of the world, including those who are closest to me. Here is a link to the prayer: ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

As I began my reconversion into the fullness of the faith, I sometimes would also judge others harshly. I think it was because I had finally just “gotten it” and couldn’t understand why others weren’t “getting it” too. Then, I’d step back and say, “You know, a year ago, that could have been you. There, truly, but for the grace of God, go I.” It helped me to not judge so harshly and to pray for them, because I know people were praying for me or I wouldn’t have turned my life around either.

Part of it comes from our zeal for everyone to know and love Jesus, which is a good thing. But we have to remember to do everything with His love and mercy.

As far as your husband and his music, would he allow you to play your music half the time while you’re in the car? It would only be fair – expose him to some great music that also “has a beat!” (Fr. Stan Fortuna or John Michael Talbot’s new “Monk Rock”) If he won’t go for this, play your own music in your own portable CD player with headphones so you don’t have to listen to his. If he wants to talk with you while you’re in the car, let him know he has to turn his music off or else you’ll have your headphones on.

When he’s watching a movie that’s objectionable, walk out of the room. If he asks you where you’re going, simply tell him the movie offends you and you can’t continue watching it.

Most of all, ask Jesus to help you, ask the Holy Spirit to give you the right words, ask Our Father to not lead you into temptation but deliver you from evil.

It’s a good and noble thing to be an example to others. It speaks volumes more than telling somebody else what they should do. If they come right out and ask you, however, you are obligated to tell them the Truth, with love and respect, of course.

 

[shannin]

wellab:

Shannin,

I know being cynical and hateful of people is wrong. I should be more hateful of Satan for taking my disposition of being sensitive in nature to things and twisting it to be hating of people. Instead of just hating the sins, I start hating people, including my husband. I feel like I am in a pit, a pit I never noticed before I came back to the Church, and now everything sinful bothers me.

Don’t be so hard on yourself. I don’t think you really hate people. As I said, we ALL sin. I think we need to concentrate on how much Jesus loves us and forgives our sins. If he can forgive us, then we should be able to forgive others. Think of the Our Father - Forgive us our trespasses **as we forgive those who trespass against us. **

---

We should be able to speak out against sin **because of our love **for the sinner.

 

[Magicsilence]

Perhaps i can help.

I know exactly what you are talking about and now know how to deal with it.

Try to envisage all people as containers that have two holes at the top and one at the bottom. In one of the holes Christ is gently pouring his love, in the other Satan is throwing in evil thoughts, whispering things. Imagine them as a gentle blue colour and the other a deep angry red.

Now, if Satan is pouring much more in thanChrist it makes sense that only his colour can come out of the bottom hole, although occassionally a bit of Christ will shine through.

It is not the persons fault!! How can they not sin when Satan has poured so much evil into them. ?

And when you pray, you begin to widen the hole for Christ and close that of Satan.

Watching nasty films, listening to bad music all contribute to the evil that Satan is pouring in. Unfortunately for you.

But do not hate someone because of what they show on the outside, hate the sin, i.e the vile stuff Satan is pouring in. But look for Christ in amongst the red, search for that blue colour. And learn to love it.

It is okay to hate the sin, but the sinner? They need your help, not your hate. For who else will be able to help them recieve more of Christ into their hearts, but you?

Pray, pray, pray.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[Shoshana]

It has always been my understanding that we may judge actions and not people. I think it is our duty to gently tell them that their souls are in mortal danger when the sin is blatant. We just had a gospel reading where we are told to correct our brother/sister of such or our own souls will demand an acounting. Gently telling the person of the gravity of the situation and coming across as harsh are two different things.

We gently tell them and continue to love them, whether it be family or friend. Our ‘job’ is only to tell them…I let God do the rest. God is the God of salvation, not I. Praying the Divine Mercy is extremely imprtant as Jesus said to St Faustina that praying for sinners pleases Him greatly.

 

[wellab]

Thanks for the many ideas and suggestions.

I believe my biggest problem is really judging my husband harshly, moreso than others, because when we decided to get married in the Church a year after I came back to the Church, I pulled him along with me, not really understanding he was not on my level, so to speak. He became not “equally yoked” to me, and therefore, I guess I have been fighting ever since to pull him to where I am/was. I have shifted off that high platform I put myself on since then, obviously, with my harsh tongue and impatience towards him and others, who continue to do bad things.

What really puzzles me is that a few years back we were both going to confession together, for at least the first two years after we had our marriage blessed, and one of the priests he must have given him the idea that the music he listens to isn’t that bad. He brings this up all the time. And the priest that married us told us he loves to eat at Hooters, you know the place that has the girls dressed, well, a bit endowed and with revealing tops, and oh, has good chicken and buffalo wings. My husband to this today triumphs Hooters for their food and swears he NEVER looks at girls that are endowed. Give me a break. NEVER looks at girls??? I found out he was viewing porn earlier this year, and he explained that that was no big deal. He wasn’t meeting any of these girls, just admiring their beauty.

So you see, there is a lot more behind all this judgment thing with regard to my husband than just he isn’t being good and I hate sinners.

I have brought all this up in confession before, many times, I just guess I don’t have a really good control on my emotions and reactions to others bad behaviors. I do pray the Divine Mercy sometimes, I do go to extra Masses during the month on Saturdays sometimes, I do hang around to pray the Rosary sometimes. I guess I need to do these things more often, with more fervor.

I don’t mind discussing any issue here in these forums. Even stuff as intimate as goings on in my marriage. I have a hard time finding a priest available to speak with other than confession time (and that time is very limited of course). I rather like hearing many ideas and suggestions and points of view. It helps me.

Just know that this discussion has helped squelch some of my anger and hatred. I guess I really don’t hate people so much as I just am ANGRY at my husband.

Sue

 

[Shoshana]

wellab:

Thanks for the many ideas and suggestions.

I believe my biggest problem is really judging my husband harshly, moreso than others, because when we decided to get married in the Church a year after I came back to the Church, I pulled him along with me, not really understanding he was not on my level, so to speak. He became not “equally yoked” to me, and therefore, I guess I have been fighting ever since to pull him to where I am/was. I have shifted off that high platform I put myself on since then, obviously, with my harsh tongue and impatience towards him and others, who continue to do bad things.

What really puzzles me is that a few years back we were both going to confession together, for at least the first two years after we had our marriage blessed, and one of the priests he must have given him the idea that the music he listens to isn’t that bad. He brings this up all the time. And the priest that married us told us he loves to eat at Hooters, you know the place that has the girls dressed, well, a bit endowed and with revealing tops, and oh, has good chicken and buffalo wings. My husband to this today triumphs Hooters for their food and swears he NEVER looks at girls that are endowed. Give me a break. NEVER looks at girls??? I found out he was viewing porn earlier this year, and he explained that that was no big deal. He wasn’t meeting any of these girls, just admiring their beauty.

So you see, there is a lot more behind all this judgment thing with regard to my husband than just he isn’t being good and I hate sinners.

I have brought all this up in confession before, many times, I just guess I don’t have a really good control on my emotions and reactions to others bad behaviors. I do pray the Divine Mercy sometimes, I do go to extra Masses during the month on Saturdays sometimes, I do hang around to pray the Rosary sometimes. I guess I need to do these things more often, with more fervor.

I don’t mind discussing any issue here in these forums. Even stuff as intimate as goings on in my marriage. I have a hard time finding a priest available to speak with other than confession time (and that time is very limited of course). I rather like hearing many ideas and suggestions and points of view. It helps me.

Just know that this discussion has helped squelch some of my anger and hatred. I guess I really don’t hate people so much as I just am ANGRY at my husband.

Sue

Feelings are neither here or there. They, themselves, are not sin. They are only a barometer on what is happening within me. It is when you ACT on your feelings that it is sin.

It might help if I give you an example of my own spriitual journey, when I first started out. I am a loyal ‘fan’ of St John of the Cross and St Igantius almost from the fet fo 10+ years ago. I have had a spiritual director for that long also. One day I was so mad that people from my parish whould not join in for the pro-life walk every Tuesday in front of our local hospital. We would pray the rosary and just pray…back and forth…back and forth. I was truly angry of the complacency of the peopple at such a wrongdoing.

Well, as I confessed this anger (what seemed like justified anger) I realized the anger came from the fact that I too, also used abortive methods. I was convicted by the Spirit of using the IUD and remembering passing such a huge clot (it looked the same as when I miscarried). Although I remember hoping and wishing not to pregnant on this birth control, I probably did. The anger came from myslef to myself for falling into the trap of birth control. Then, I could’ve justified doing this because my husband would not touch me if I wasn’t protected but the reality is, I lost a baby due to my own fault.

The anger rested with me…and when i confessed it peace came. Now, I am not saying your situation is the same. I am just telling you that feeling are exactly that, feelings. Not a sin one way or another. They are just a gift from tGod o help us guage ourselves in the scheme of things.

I would highly recomment a very good spiritual director. Pray about and ask God to send you one and to give you the time that is necessary to be a directee…

Offering up prayers for you and have a great day…

 

[rayne89]

wellab:

Example A) hubby likes to listen to music that I find very offensive mostly because of the sexual innuendo and implicit and explicit lyrics. He does not understand that it bothers me so much that he listens to it, even the car with me there. He has no regard for my moral unsettledness about the music and what it says about our society. He claims he just likes the beat of the music, doesn’t listen to the lyrics, and he doesn’t do what the songs say (sexual acts and so forth). I cannot get through to him how evil this is, and I cannot listen without being affected by it. He listens to music and watches movies both of which put women in precarious sexual situations and he does not get it, I don’t like the tempation of it all. How do I deal with this in my marriage without judging my hubby?

If you a riding with them him the car maybe you can just ask to have the radio off. My husband has said the same thing about music he listens to. I don’t hound him about it but I do reqesut that I don’t have to listen to it. Pray and let God do his job. The more I have tried in the past to “try to get through him” the more resistance he put up.

My husband likes horror movies but he knows I dislike them intensely. He watches them when I am in bed. I used to bother me that he watched such things but it obviously is not having an adverse effect on him. He is a solid Catholic and a tender loving hubby. He has said recently he does see things differently now in movies he’s watched before that he did not see when he was not Catholic. And there is some stuff he doesn’t feel comfortable listening to some music he used to. He had to come to this decision on his own.

Men do not liked to be nagged. The harder you try most likely the harder they will resist.

 

[wellab]

Shoshana:

The anger rested with me…and when i confessed it peace came. Now, I am not saying your situation is the same. I am just telling you that feeling are exactly that, feelings. Not a sin one way or another. They are just a gift from tGod o help us guage ourselves in the scheme of things.

I think I know what you mean. Just having the gnawing feeling that bugs you that people are doing things you don’t like is one thing, but acting in such a disgraceful and nagging way is not a good way to help others. I am sorry about your loss of pregnancy. It brings up another issue I struggle with, as well, though really is another thread, I am sure. Yet, this idea of not wanting to be pregnant, for many reasons, is also a reason for anger, and maybe closely linked to my anger at my husband. Not just that HE does things wrong and I wish he’d stop NOW, but I do things selfishly and my way, and that’s not right either.

Hmm…how do you find a spiritual director? It seems we have a shortage of priests in our area, I wonder how to find one that I could regularly speak with. That would be very helpful.

Sue

 

[Ruthie]

For a spiritual guide, how about your Baptismal sponsor, or your RCIA sponsor?

Or look around you for someone that seems to have the qualities you want - like lovingkindness towards a sinful husband?

Prayer works. Instead of a “knee-jerk” reaction, go for a “knee-bend” one!

Since he doesn’t seem able to “hear” it from you, pray about it. A lot.

This is the “for worse” part of marriage. Make sure he knows you still love him. Pray with Jesus, “Father, %between%forgive %between%them; for they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34) (RSV)

 

[Ana]

When I am tempted to (or actually fall) to judge my husband instead of his actions, I have found the following to be helpful.

I bring to mind my life before Christ, and any serious falls after. I remember how I myself have offended Him, and how it was only by His grace I was able to hear and see the truth, and gain the strength to overcome these sins.

I try to look with pity and compassion, instead of pride. Until I receive this grace … Confession … Confession … Confession.

It also helps to focus OFTEN on the good in my husband, even if all I can find is seemingly small.

I reflect on my motives. Do I want him to stop a particular sin primarily because it offends ME? or God?

Am I loving him for my sake? or because he is a soul that Christ loves so much … He gave His own life?

Am I allowing Christ (using my husband) to cleanse me of my self love and indignation, so that He may be less hindered in loving my husband through me? It is His love that calls forth repentance and transforms.

Believe you me, I feel your pain. I do know how it feels to have ugly feelings towards my husband. Trust and hope in God, He has not brought you this far to abandon you now. In Him you will overcome, and He will bring all of these trials to your benefit (and your husbands) and His glory. God bless.