More patient with some abuses than with others?

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baltobetsy

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I find this to be true about myself, and I wonder about others. In the case when a priest changes the words of the Mass in such a way that it is “more reverent” than the Missal (I have those words in quotations because disobedience can never really be more reverent!), I find that I put up with this more easily than I do with a change that indicates a lack of belief, a liberal/heterodox viewpoint, etc. We have a priest in our parish who treats the Mass as if it were his own personal, private devotion. It’s a glimpse into his own very rich spirituality, but at the same time, it’s wrong. One small example: When we pray for the Pope, he’ll call him “our most beloved Holy Father, John Paul.” This kind of thing is sprinkled thoughout the Mass, along with some of his own favorite prayers that are definitely not in the Missal, but very beautiful prayers. You never know what he’ll do next, but it’s all obviously out of love. The people just eat it up! And although it drives me nuts in one sense, I tend to go along with it, too.

I’m not looking for advice here, but rather your thoughts on whether you would be more patient with this kind of abuse than the kind of thing we regularly complain about on this forum - carelessness in handling the Holy Eucharist, inclusive language, etc. * I also don’t want us to get into ripping this priest to shreds. * We all know the roots of disobedience. Let’s limit our discussion to whether or not YOU put up with this stuff more easily than with irreverent stuff.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Betsy
 
A couple of things I think are questionable in a technical sense but okay by me: the addition of the Hail Mary prayer as a part of the intercessory prayers and the St. Michael prayer after the Mass (begun by the priest). These are arguably violations of the rubrics but seem more fitting than other things that I find offensive…but it could be a matter of my personal taste which really shouldn’t come into play.
 
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baltobetsy:
I find this to be true about myself, and I wonder about others. In the case when a priest changes the words of the Mass in such a way that it is “more reverent” than the Missal (I have those words in quotations because disobedience can never really be more reverent!), I find that I put up with this more easily than I do with a change that indicates a lack of belief, a liberal/heterodox viewpoint, etc. We have a priest in our parish who treats the Mass as if it were his own personal, private devotion. It’s a glimpse into his own very rich spirituality, but at the same time, it’s wrong. One small example: When we pray for the Pope, he’ll call him “our most beloved Holy Father, John Paul.” This kind of thing is sprinkled thoughout the Mass, along with some of his own favorite prayers that are definitely not in the Missal, but very beautiful prayers. You never know what he’ll do next, but it’s all obviously out of love. The people just eat it up! And although it drives me nuts in one sense, I tend to go along with it, too.

I’m not looking for advice here, but rather your thoughts on whether you would be more patient with this kind of abuse than the kind of thing we regularly complain about on this forum - carelessness in handling the Holy Eucharist, inclusive language, etc. * I also don’t want us to get into ripping this priest to shreds. * We all know the roots of disobedience. Let’s limit our discussion to whether or not YOU put up with this stuff more easily than with irreverent stuff.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Betsy
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Follow your heart… approach the priest first… see what he says, if you not satisfied, you still have a Bishop… that’s the nice thing about having a hiarchy… (all the way to Rome if need be) 👍
 
Hi Folks!

I feel that a change either way gives the other side reason to change some more? the kinda "Well they changed" blah blah… See both sides think they are changing it for the better! :whacky:

It is our own private devotion as well as being our most sublime communal devotion. Thats why the Mass is beautiful just as it is. Love the Holy Mass for just being the Holy Mass. not for what it could be or should be. As it is, it is the work of the Holy Spirit. To ‘improve’ or ‘include’ tells the Holy Spirit that He just didn’t get it perfect enough for us humans.

Blessings,
Fergal
Naas
Ireland
 
space ghost:
Follow your heart… approach the priest first… see what he says, if you not satisfied, you still have a Bishop… that’s the nice thing about having a hiarchy… (all the way to Rome if need be) 👍
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I didn’t ask what to do - I asked if people would (not should) be more patient with this kind of thing than with less “reverent” abuses. What about you, SpaceGhost?

Betsy
 
When we pray for the Pope, he’ll call him “our most beloved Holy Father, John Paul.”
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I probably wouldn’t even notice this as being an “abuse” or against the rubrics, so I guess I’d be one of the ones who’d be more patient. Additions of prayers and the like might grate against me a little, but far better that than deletion of the Creed! (Which happened at my parish for some time). I agree that the changes seem to be made with a sincere love…which suggests that if the priest realized that he shouldn’t be changing things, he would quickly correct them.
 
Our pastor say “His divine Son” at every place where “His Son” is writen in the Missal. If I am following along, I notice, otherwise it just seems like it belongs there. 🙂

He has been such a crusader to get other abuses out of our church, that I can’t fault him for this.
 
I’m a rather verbal sort of person (I suppose most of you have noticed that if you’ve plowed through any of my posts ) so I probably would be LESS patient with liturgical abuses that involved changing of words or addition/ deletion of prayers–even if the change involved beautiful words or prayers.

Some years ago we had a priest who changed nearly every word of the Mass, according to his “mood” at the time. A sweet man, but we had routinely 90 minute masses because he would get so caught up in making additions to every single solitary prayer–heck, sometimes he’d do every single WORD IN THE PRAYER! complete with LLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGG pauses scattered here and there. Yikes! It was so difficult to go to Mass and concentrate because it wasn’t really a Mass–it was Father’s “personal solilioquy” done in the best theatrical style.

Maybe I’m too abrupt and intolerant, but when it comes to abuse I don’t think I’d be patient with ANY, and would tend to be MORE impatient than others. I can only pray that my impatience may be neither hasty nor undeserved and that in my reactions to those involved I would so far compensate for my own impatience by striving for the greatest degree of charity in my reactions to compensate!
 
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baltobetsy:
I didn’t ask what to do - I asked if people would (not should) be more patient with this kind of thing than with less “reverent” abuses. What about you, SpaceGhost?

Betsy
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the answer/suggestion i gave you is exactly the way i would effect correction… or at least start… a process… a simple process to effect an outcome more to my liking… sorry i misunderstood…
 
I think you should check out what an actual “liturgical abuse” is.

Adding a word such as “Divine” before “Son,” or expressing filial devotion to the Church’s Supreme Pontiff while praying for him during the general intercessory prayers hardly fit the bill for “liturgical abuse.”

Is he changing the words of the Consecration?
Is he mishandling the Sacred Species, or allowing others to do so?
Is he allowing innovations such as liturgical dancing?
Is he demonstrating postures or gestures which deviate from those set forth in the GIRM?

Liturgical abuses against the Most Holy Eucharist are the most severe, and as such, the Vatican has sought to remedy these by issuing Redemptionis Sacramentum.

Not everything that you don’t see in your missallette can be called a “liturgical abuse.”

If he was changing the words so as to change the meaning of the prayer, I’d be asking him for clarification!
 
To answer directly, any alteration in the ordo missae I find equally distracting, whether reverant or deviant. However, if the former, I remind myself of the plethora of wonderful formulae for worship in the world and try to bear it. If the latter, I fume (as much for the apostasy as the alteration). One thing you could say for the TLM–unless you were a good linguist, it was hard to fiddle with the Latin.
 
I was pleased to find I scored 100% on that quiz. Now if all the liturgists at all the parishes could just do as well;)
 
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