More Proud Being Christian than Catholic

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swimstud

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My Uncle is Catholic but he is starting to think more like a protestant. He is going to teach confirmation classes but I fear that he will fill his student’s heads with ideas that will cause them to leave the church. Can someone please help me get my Uncle to believe in the Church. I don’t know how to approach him. This is part of what he said to me one day:

*I am more proud being a Christian than a Catholic…
About the book you gave me `The Pillar of Fire’, I am happy to be a Catholic because the Catholic Church has wonderful Sacraments that are available to us. These Sacraments especially confession and communiion keep me coming back. My faith about my Salvation, Blessings and the real Truth however, is completely in God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit… That faith being that Jesus is our Saviour, without this faith we are lost. Unfortunately I have met many Catholics that have put all of their faith in the Catholic Church. When they are asked if they will go to heaven when they die, they say they are not sure. They have put their faith for salvation in the wrong place. Jesus said, I am the way the truth and the life.

So like I said I am happy to be a Catholic but I put all of my Faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit and in God the Father, not only for my salvation but also for his direction and guidence while I am in this world. We do not have to fight our demons, enemies, well meaning friends and relatives. When we put all of trust in Jesus, he supports us and sets us free.

Until next time,
With all my best wishes and Prayers,

Uncle Tony
 
How is this incompatible with Catholic faith? Salvation, blessings, and truth do come from eternal God. He uses the Church and people as vehicles of these, but He is the source. We must never confuse the servants with the Master.
 
He just doesn’t know who the Chatholic Church really is…She is the Bride of Christ, (read Ephessians 5:20-(?)) it talks about the mystery that is Christ and the Church. And also remind him of Peter and the keys (Matt 16:18)…
God Bless.
 
I pray for you in your attempts to guide your uncle. Unfortunately, family members are not always the ones who can reach someone.

You might ask your uncle why he thinks he needs to make a distinction between trusting God and trusting the Catholic Church, the Body of Christ on earth.
 
Saying that one is “more proud to be Christian than Catholic” is similar to saying that one is “more proud to be a mammal than a human being.”
 
When they are asked if they will go to heaven when they die, they say they are not sure.
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Sounds like he feels his salvation is assured. Which, if he does, is presumption. Christ is the judge, not Uncle Tony and not even the Church, though the Church through Christ can declare Saints.

Hope Tony gets back to working out his salvation. My sinful nature makes me fight to keep my heart turned toward Him. It’s no lack in Christ, but a faulty nature in me. I have to work at keeping my heart trained on Him.

I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling.

peace
 
Swimstud,

It’s difficult to comment on this because your uncle’s comments are rather vague. But I would ask, as SMWH suggests, why is he making a distinction? If, by making a distinction, he is trying to say that some people put their faith in people in the Church instead of in Christ, making themselves vulnerable to a loss of faith when these humans disappoint, then that seems a reasonable thing to say—I can see the results of that situation when someone says that the sex scandal and the bishops’ actions have eroded their faith. If, on the other hand, he is pitting the Church against Christ, that is definitely not a good sign. So when he says, “Unfortunately I have met many Catholics that have put all of their faith in the Catholic Church”, ask him to give you examples of what he means so you can better assess where he’s at.

I have to admit that the rest of what he wrote gives me pause…sounds a bit like he’s completely sure of his salvation, which would be presumptuous. You might want to ask him more questions to clarify his opinions. Our Church is hurt when people who are responsible for catechesis are not qualified to do so. If you determine that your uncle really is going off into a Protestant “sola fide” direction, by all means have a talk with him and see if you can’t get him to drop teaching confirmation classes. If that doesn’t work, talk to the parish or the diocese. Do something! Poor catechesis is hurting our Church.
 
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MichaelTDoyle:
Sounds like he feels his salvation is assured. Which, if he does, is presumption. Christ is the judge, not Uncle Tony and not even the Church, though the Church through Christ can declare Saints.

Hope Tony gets back to working out his salvation. My sinful nature makes me fight to keep my heart turned toward Him. It’s no lack in Christ, but a faulty nature in me. I have to work at keeping my heart trained on Him.

I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling.

peace
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Well, since this is an apologetics thread, a small quibble. In Catholic theology, presumption is assuming one can get to heaven on one’s own merits, or that there will be pardon forthcoming without his repentance.

But apart from that technical point, Michael is spot on. He is right about how important it is for Tony to get the process of our salvation in Christ clear in his mind. Otherwise, Tony may very well end up in a situation where he WILL fall into presumption. I really shudder when I hear someof my non-Catholic aquaintences say, “Once saved, always saved,” and we pray Tony will not end up in that state of mind.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
I might say something along the lines of :

Well, I am proud to be a Catholic Christian and am blessed with the fullness of the truth which is only found in the Catholic church, of which the faith that Christ is my Savior is a central truth. I am happy that Christ saw fit to establish one Church to which I can look to, in which the fullness of Christian truth presides.

God Bless,
Maria

P.S. I do think it is important to confront him on exactly what he means since he is responsible for the education of the next generation of Catholics. Do this for those he teaches as well as for himself. What is it the Bible says? Better to tie a rock around your neck and throw it in the river than to be responsible for harming a child? If what your uncle teaches causes a child to leave the church and eventually lose their hope of heaven, may God have mercy on his soul.
 
i always find the expressions ‘proud to be a catholic’ or ‘proud to be a christian’ give me pause. they seem to have the wrong emphasis. it’s taking the focus off of loving God and loving others, and making ‘why i’m proud of what i am’ the main point.

certainly, our hope of salvation is in Christ, in God. but when you say ‘in Christ alone’, it seems to strip away many, if not all, of the ways that He chooses for His graces to come into our lives. the sacraments, along with the community of faith and the communion of saints, etc., are ways God manifests Himself in our lives.

i think your uncle is moving toward an ecumenical view of soteriology and a loving acceptance of our protestant brothers, which is good. but he also seems to be moving slightly away from the great channels of blessing and grace that we receive through the church.

i’d rejoice in his opening to God’s goodness and love, and pray (and, if the opportunity presents itself, gently remind him) that he might not forget the avenues God uses to bless us.
 
If my Uncle asks me the question:“are you going to heaven” I feel that saying I’m not sure is not enough because he wll say that we can know if we are going to heaven. I want to give him the bible quote about working out your salvation in fear and trembling but he already has a definition for that quote. He says that once you’ve worked out your relationship with God you have worked out your salvation. That sounded very strange to me. I still have no solid answer for him. Any ideas?
 
ask him, “Where is that in the Bible”, and “How do you know when you’ve finished working out your salvation? What are the requirements? How do you know? Did the Early Church Fathers who got taught by the Apostles themselves, believe that?”

Switch the tables and make him justify every single platitude.
 
am more proud being a Christian than a Catholic…
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Huh? On the face of this statement we see he has an axe to grind. If not, he certainly has no facility with even basic catholic theology. This guy is reaching others about the faith?
Unfortunately I have met many Catholics that have put all of their faith in the Catholic Church. When they are asked if they will go to heaven when they die, they say they are not sure. They have put their faith for salvation in the wrong place.
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Again, this man is Catholic? He rejects St. Pauls words about working out his salvation through fear and trembling for the more recent, and cozy, once saved always saved.

It seems he has much Protestant theology and very little Catholic. It is the most dangerous type of error. One mixes error with truth, all the while never completele publicly denying the truth. That is what happens in many parishes today. Very scarey.
 
Gerry Hunter:
Well, since this is an apologetics thread, a small quibble. In Catholic theology, presumption is assuming one can get to heaven on one’s own merits, or that there will be pardon forthcoming without his repentance.

But apart from that technical point, Michael is spot on. He is right about how important it is for Tony to get the process of our salvation in Christ clear in his mind. Otherwise, Tony may very well end up in a situation where he WILL fall into presumption. I really shudder when I hear someof my non-Catholic aquaintences say, “Once saved, always saved,” and we pray Tony will not end up in that state of mind.

Blessings,

Gerry
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Thanks 👍
Still learning here and exploring my faith.
 
ok, three things.

one - if you ask him where it says so in the Bible, he’ll quote 1 john where it says ‘i write these things so that you may know you have eternal life’, and he’ll emphasize the word ‘KNOW’ and make it mean that you can be sure without any doubt that you will be saved when you die, period.

two - the idea ‘once saved, always saved’ is actually true - according to catholics! did you know that? 🙂 the problem is that it’s once SAVED, not once the process of your salvation has begun. we aren’t SAVED until we die, and our salvation is complete. we are in the PROCESS of our salvation now, and so we’re not yet SAVED, so we’re not yet ‘ALWAYS saved…’ if someone challenges this idea, esp a protestant, ask them what would happen if someone decided to become a christian, and right after they said ‘dear God, i ask you to-’ they stop and say ‘nevermind. i decided not to become a christian’. are they saved? prots would say no, because they didn’t complete the prayer, didn’t ask Jesus to save them. well, we catholics say the same, only that the process is not merely a prayer, but a lifetime of God saving us through sanctification until we die and are completely freed (and saved) from sin.

three - when someone asks if you’re saved, the answer is ‘yes! i was saved yesterday, i’m being saved today, and my salvation will be complete tomorrow!’ 🙂 ‘will you go to heaven when you die?’ this is not an easy answer, as so many prots try to make it. yes, i will go to heaven when i die, if it pleases God to take me there. we all deserve hell. He saves us from it. that’s not a pat, pie in the sky reply. 🙂

God bless you and your conversation with your uncle.
 
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swimstud:
Unfortunately I have met many Catholics that have put all of their faith in the Catholic Church. When they are asked if they will go to heaven when they die, they say they are not sure. They have put their faith for salvation in the wrong place. Jesus said, I am the way the truth and the life.
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Does he not realize that those who seemingly put their faith in the Church are really placing in Christ alone whose Church it is! I believe the teachins of the Church because I believe in the promises of Christ. 👍
 
P.S. You may want to talk to the DRE of your uncles parish about your concerns.
 
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