More trouble between Ukraine and Russia

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ChristMyLife

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The Ukrainian Parliament just passed a bill saying that Russian Orthodox Churches of the Moscow Patriarchate must call themselves Russian Orthodox, not Ukrainian Orthodox.

Now, I can understand arguments from both sides. On one hand, from a secular law point of view, this seems to go against the liberal political idea of religious freedom. The Russians should have the freedom to call themselves whatever they want.

On the other hand, from a spiritual perspective, one would think the Russians would simply humble themselves and say “fine, we’ll call ourselves Russian Orthodox in Ukraine.”

Good arguments can be made in defense of both sides.

However, as I understand it, many of the preachers at the pulpits of the Moscow Patriarchate seem to be expressly preaching intolerance, schism, intrigue, and war. This is unacceptable from both a secular and spiritual standpoint.

I’ve thought a lot recently: WWI started in Eastern Europe in Serbia. WWII started in Eastern Europe in Poland. Now it seems to be more inevitable than ever before, WWIII will start in Eastern Europe, in Ukraine.

Let us all beseech the Prince of Peace for peace and unity for all Christians in the world, but especially those of the Russian Orthodox, Russian Greek Catholic, Ukranian Orthodox of both Kiev and Moscow, Ukrainian Greek Catholics, and all Slavic Christians.

Sts. Andrew and Peter, pray for us
Sts. Cyril and Methodius, pray for us
St. Vladimir the Great, pray for us
Sts. Boris and Gleb, pray for us
O Most Holy Theotokos, save us!

Lord Jesus Christ, through the prayers of the Angels, Saints, and Theotokos, grant us grace, mercy, peace, unity, and charity above all!

Read more: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-po...thodox-church-of-the-moscow-patriarchate.html
 
Salmonslayer said:
Who’s going to jump in on Ukraine’s side?
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NATO and the EU have both voiced support for Ukraine.

My estimate of who the New Allies and New Axis Powers will be:

Allies: USA, UK and the Commonwealth, France, Germany, Italy, Ukraine, most of the EU minus Switzerland and maybe a few other neutrals, a few Eastern European countries would probably go Axis against the EU as well, Israel, Japan, South Korea.

Axis: Russia, Iran, Syria, North Korea, China, Serbia, Romania, Georgia, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey

States which could go either way: Poland, Hungary, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia, India would most likely go Allied, so Pakistan would go Axis. Most likely Saudi Arabia and other Islamic powers like Indonesia would go Axis.

Other countries in South America and Africa, as well as some Asian countries would remain relatively neutral.
 
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Salmonslayer said:
I think most likely, Russia will bite off another piece of Ukraine, there will be some talk about how it’s wrong and then it will be forgotten about. Repeat until Ukraine is no mas.
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In the interest of world peace, this would be a much better outcome than the WWIII scenario…

Regardless, it breaks the heart to see Christians at each others throats like this. The situation between Moscow, Kiev, and Constantinople is a worldwide scandal for all Christians. It makes the secular and atheistic people say “look how they are acting… That is what their Christianity causes? We want no part with that sectarian ideology which leads to hatred and bloodshed…”
 
ChristMyLife said:
Now it seems to be more inevitable than ever before, WWIII will start in Eastern Europe, in Ukraine
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Russia has already invaded Georgia some years ago and nothing happened, so I don’t think other nations around the world are eager to go and kill each other because of Ukraine.
 
ChristMyLife said:
Salmonslayer:
Who’s going to jump in on Ukraine’s side?
Click to expand...
NATO and the EU have both voiced support for Ukraine.

My estimate of who the New Allies and New Axis Powers will be:

Allies: USA, UK and the Commonwealth, France, Germany, Italy, Ukraine, most of the EU minus Switzerland and maybe a few other neutrals, a few Eastern European countries would probably go Axis against the EU as well, Israel, Japan, South Korea.

Axis: Russia, Iran, Syria, North Korea, China, Serbia, Romania, Georgia, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey
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Georgia is pro-EU. Armenia is still in Russia’s orbit. So, Armenia would fight for Russia. Georgia definitely wouldn’t There are two unrecognized breakaway Republics that Russia helped create: Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Imagine taking away a quarter of the land from a small state the size of… West Virginia. Its the size of West Virginia. Or WAS.
 
About the actual law, this is clearly descrimination. Yes, the tensions are high there. And yes, the Russian Orthodox Church is very political. But, its wrong for a government to do this to a Church. We wouldn’t stand for the U.S. government telling any religious group to change its name for any reason, would we?

What if the Episcopalians were forced to be called Episcopalians by the governemnt (instead of Anglicans). They chose to make that determination for themselves.

I think the creation of a separate Church was enough. But this is kind of like rubbing salt in the wounds.
 
Fets said:
think the creation of a separate Church was enough. But this is kind of like rubbing salt in the wounds.
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I can sympathise with both sides, but as someone who believes in the Democratic principles laid out in the US Constitution regarding freedom of speech and religion, I think I’d agree with you the Ukrainian MP is wrong on this and that in the name of justice and freedom for all the President should veto the bill.

The Ukrainians need to be careful that they don’t begin to hate Russians, even if some Russians hate them. It’s not a suggestion, it’s a directive straight from Jesus’ holy Mouth that we love our enemies.
 
And look what happened.
The great powers ended up learning their lesson, twice, and now I doubt they would do this again.
 
With the current administration being so pro-Russia and anti-NATO, I don’t expect any aid for Ukraine if Russia does attack. Then again, going back to FDR, we have been willing to allow Russia/The USSR a great deal of latitude in “their sphere of influence” that we wouldn’t allow from a third world country without nuclear weapons.
 
The First and Second World War proved that a fattened monster will then threaten and terrorize the west.
I mean that after the takeover of Ukraine they will not stop. Next will be the Baltic, the Balkans, new subsequent intrigues and major provocations.
I think that those who consider the conflict between Ukraine and Russia as a local conflict are mistaken.
 
I sure hope Trump does not abandon NATO too much. Or else Putin can start thinking he can attack NATO countries in east Europe without in any way risking WWIII. Trump is such a horrible president. He does not value our allies. He just goes on insulting our allies, imposing tariffs on them, etc.
 
The story is full of brilliant battles in which the army lost several times superior to its rival.
Today’s Ukrainian army is different.
The soldier on the front line is like a drug addict, I mean that no one and nothing will make such people go out of their posts.
If there is an invasion, there will be resistance, but what surprise me is that those who chew popcorn and firmly believe that in the future a monster in the center of Europe will not terrify the rest of the civilized world.
 
Athanasiy said:
If there is an invasion, there will be resistance, but what surprise me is that those who chew popcorn and firmly believe that in the future a monster in the center of Europe will not terrify the rest of the civilized world
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Monster?
Civilized world?

First of all, this “civilized world” you say is no better than the “monster”, just check a good history book and you’ll see how things are more grey than black and white.
And I might be wrong, but your “those who chew popcorn” sounds as if those who don’t have the same views as you are just dumb enough to see things as you see.
 
Athanasiy said:
that those who consider the conflict between Ukraine and Russia as a local conflict are mistaken.
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I agree @Athanasiy.

I see Ukraine v Russia as the tip of the iceberg in Russia v the West.

I still believe the situation in Ukraine has a serious risk of igniting WWIII.
 
Ukraine, when it became independent, and other countries were joining NATO, chose not to follow them, not join NATO. So it is not under our protection. It is too late now. Now nobody is going to help them. It is too bad. But that is the way it is. Because it is not in NATO, Putin was able to attack it without risking WWIII. And of course Putin is not going to risk WWIII, that could turn nuclear, risking the possibility of all humans on the earth being wiped out.
 
CzechMan said:
Ukraine, when it became independent, and other countries were joining NATO
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Hasn’t NATO pledged support for Ukraine?

All it will take is 1 single NATO country to step in to fight for Ukraine, and that will draw in the rest of NATO, wouldn’t it?
 
Salmonslayer said:
, nato is a defensive pact. Not
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Aha.

So, for example then, Germany would have to go into Ukraine and attack Russia, then Russia would have to attack Germany on its own German soil to draw in the rest of NATO?

Would Russia hitting say Germany with a missile strike draw in the rest of NATO to attack Russia?
 
Athanasiy said:
Then you can compare what you have, what your ancestors atchieved and what a striking difference between two worlds,two planets.
And try to be Ukrainian for a while and see what he should choose.
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@athanasiy I’m just guessing here, but are you a member of the newly created Orthodox Church of Ukraine under Metropolitan Epifaniy?

For what it’s worth, my full support lies with the Ecumenical Patriarch and the OCU.
 
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Salmonslayer said:
if Germany struck before Russia, nato would have no obligation to back Germany in a fight they started.

If Germany is minding its own business and Russia lobs a missile in then nato is obligated.
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So basically Russia is free to molest Ukraine without worrying about serious intervention from the West…

Sad. Very sad. I think we’ll see a large scale bloody war in the near future where Russia massacres and annexes Ukraine, if that’s the case.
 
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