Mormon Mother Goddess? Married to GOD?

[MelanieAnne]

Where’s that quote from? The “Mormon Missionary training” wouldn’t have worded it so incoherently, so don’t quote something that doesn’t exist!

They have bodies because that’s what you get when you’re resurrected…an immortal body.

A Pac

A returned missionary told me that. I’ve also heard Mormons make that argument EXACTLY that way in a public forum (not internet, in PERSON). So if it isn’t the argument they use, then I suppose the returned missionary that told me that is the liar. So that liar would be “one of yours”. Ditto the people that you say word it “incoherently”.

 

[A_Pac]

Excuse me? LIAR?

Yes. You put something in quotes, which has never been published in church text. Of course, if I’m wrong, please show me.

Careful with quotes…they hold a lot of weight.

've also heard Mormons make that argument EXACTLY that way in a public forum (not internet, in PERSON).

Hearsay. I don’t care…

So if it isn’t the argument they use, then I suppose the returned missionary that told me that is the liar. So that liar would be “one of yours”. Ditto the people that you say word it “incoherently”.

Wahh…Yawn.

A Pac

 

[MelanieAnne]

Yes. You put something in quotes, which has never been published in church text. Of course, if I’m wrong, please show me.

Careful with quotes…they hold a lot of weight.

The Mormons who I heard speaking that argument were missionaries. When I asked a friend who is a returned missionary about it later, he said that argument it came out of Missionary Training. I never said it was published, I said it was part of their training. It could have been something discussed at training, I didn’t ask for specifics. And the thing I actually put in quotes was what the Mormon missionary SAID, so it WAS a quote.

It’s OK if you want to deny the argument is a common one. But I’m not a liar.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

Yes. You put something in quotes, which has never been published in church text. Of course, if I’m wrong, please show me.

Careful with quotes…they hold a lot of weight.

Hearsay. I don’t care…

Wahh…Yawn.

A Pac

A Pac, if you don’t want to get ignored (or banned, possibly?), please be engage in respectful dialogue. Don’t disregard other’s experiences with Mormon missionaries without giving a good reason for it.

 

[estesbob]

Just to set the record straight (for Paul), the “doctrine” of the church is that if there’s a Father, there’s a Mother, but we don’t know a lot about her. While some have spoken of “wives” in heaven, most of this has been speculation. Clearly, however, for those like Abraham that have reached their exaltation, it’d make sense to receive those to whom they had on earth. In other words, if you believe in the exaltation of man, the “eternal polygamy” idea makes sense.

But why don’t we speak of Her?.

If you take it from the Father’s position, I daresay She is His Pearl of Great Price…not meant for being cast before swine, mocked, and demeaned. If I were God the Father, I’d certainly not want people disparaging my wife in hyperbole and disrespect. But certainly, she exists. It makes a lot more sense than calling God the Father under the Trinitarian defintion, considering he is void of passion, shape, and gender.

A Pac

You mean Jesus had two mommies? Wow!

 

[A_Pac]

To be able to move through time and space, walls and buildings WITH a body…that is impressive.

 

[Kristine1957]

:bigyikes: Mormon’s you have got to be kidding???God is married to his Goddess wife (or Heavenly Mother) and has sprirt children

You believe that you were first spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth?
:whacky: Dosn’t this just seem strange to you at all? Furthermore, how did the Heavenly Mother come about? Did God make her or what?
Forgive me I’m not trying to be rude I just don’t understand how you can actually believe this. It’s not in the Bible so why would you believe it because Joseph Smith said so…?

Also, where is this is Mormon doctrine about this Heavenly Mother?

 

[ABostonCatholic]

To be able to move through time and space, walls and buildings WITH a body…that is impressive.

Indeed, which means that the glorified body of Christ was something entirely different from what we normally consider a body.

 

[Kristine1957]

Just to set the record straight (for Paul), the “doctrine” of the church is that if there’s a Father, there’s a Mother, but we don’t know a lot about her. While some have spoken of “wives” in heaven, most of this has been speculation. Clearly, however, for those like Abraham that have reached their exaltation, it’d make sense to receive those to whom they had on earth. In other words, if you believe in the exaltation of man, the “eternal polygamy” idea makes sense.

But why don’t we speak of Her?.

If you take it from the Father’s position, I daresay She is His Pearl of Great Price…not meant for being cast before swine, mocked, and demeaned. If I were God the Father, I’d certainly not want people disparaging my wife in hyperbole and disrespect. But certainly, she exists. It makes a lot more sense than calling God the Father under the Trinitarian defintion, considering he is void of passion, shape, and gender.

A Pac

A Pac: Can you tell me where is this doctrine of a Heavenly Mother is in the Bible or is it just in the mormon doctrine? I would like to see for myself. Thank you!

 

[Allweather]

While some have spoken of “wives” in heaven, most of this has been speculation.

There’s the familiar “this has been speculation” phrase we’ve come to know and expect from our Mormon friends. I wonder if this is their way of having their doctrine and denying it, too?

Clearly, however, for those like Abraham that have reached their exaltation, it’d make sense to receive those to whom they had on earth. In other words, if you believe in the exaltation of man, the “eternal polygamy” idea makes sense.

On the other hand, if you didn’t believe in the exaltation of man according to the Mormon speculations, the “eternal polygamy” idea wouldn’t make a lick of sense.

Well. Curious about this “exaltation” thing, I went to the *Encyclopedia of Mormonism *and read the article under that name. Here is a quote from it:

““Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and wife. It means not only living in God’s presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including power to bear children after the resurrection.””

Emphasis is mine. I don’t know exactly what the Church of the Firstborn is, but I’m going to assume, while I wait for Pacman to clarify, since he is the one who introduced the exaltation word here, that it means Mormons, Salt Lake City Branch

I’d also like Pacman to clarify the fullness of what Mormons mean by “doing as God does.”

Thanking you in advance, Pacman, I am going to bed.

 

[Greg27]

I’ve seen this doctrine echoed before and it would seem to reflect Smith’s general anthropomorphic conception of God. It is interesting how similar this is to the Gnostics, who hypostatised various divine attributes in terms of male-female entities or pairs into the fullness of the spiritual realm.

 

[A_Pac]

Kristine1957,

You believe that you were first spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth?

Yeah…just like Jeremiah.

Dosn’t this just seem strange to you at all?

Nope.

Furthermore, how did the Heavenly Mother come about?

Having children makes a woman a mother, FYI.

Also, where is this is Mormon doctrine about this Heavenly Mother?

I don’t know. But considering you were criticizing it, I was hoping you had a source to legitimize it.

A Pac

ABostonCatholic,

Indeed, which means that the glorified body of Christ was something entirely different from what we normally consider a body.

Probably, but it certainly had flesh and bone. That’s enough to consider it a physical body…but I don’t know all the ins and outs of it all.

AW:

I wonder if this is their way of having their doctrine and denying it, too?

Speculation about a Heavenly Mother seems a lot less critical than speculation of how God’s says something, lies about, all to save people that don’t do what He said they must be done. Those are the types of “mysteries” that I find…important.

Emphasis is mine. I don’t know exactly what the Church of the Firstborn is, but I’m going to assume, while I wait for Pacman to clarify, since he is the one who introduced the exaltation word here, that it means Mormons, Salt Lake City Branch

Mormon, SLC Branch? Huh?

It means not only living in God’s presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including power to bear children after the resurrection.""

Again, one of the greatest biblical doctrines of all. What a wonderful to be a CO-HEIR with Christ, eh?

Doing as God does is to have ALL that He has, and do as He does (I know it’s difficult to figure out). To glorify God as we become more like him. What a great thing for God…to be able to make His children like him is the greatest possible example of God’s greatness.

8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath ajoined together, let not man put asunder.

Do you all think the Lord’s just kidding? What other greater purpose would there be to bind two people together for eternity?

A Pac

 

[Kristine1957]

A Pac: Jeremiah isn’t about some pre-existence. It has nothing to do with pre-existence, but pre-ordination. God was simply telling Jeremiah that before he was even born, God had called him and determined that he would be a prophet.

Also if I’m reading this correctly it says in 1 Corinthians 15:46 " The spiritual **WAS NOT ** first rather the natural and then the spiritual ". How do you explain this then?

And… I wanted **you **to tell me where to find the “heavenly mother” references since I’m not a mormon I have no idea where mormons get this from.

BTW I’m not trying to argue or criticize you. I’m trying to understand all mormon beliefs.

 

[estesbob]

A Pac: Jeremiah isn’t about some pre-existence. It has nothing to do with pre-existence, but pre-ordination. God was simply telling Jeremiah that before he was even born, God had called him and determined that he would be a prophet.

Also if I’m reading this correctly it says in 1 Corinthians 15:46 " The spiritual **WAS NOT **first rather the natural and then the spiritual ". How do you explain this then?

And… I wanted **you **to tell me where to find the “heavenly mother” references since I’m not a mormon I have no idea where mormons get this from.

BTW I’m not trying to argue or criticize you. I’m trying to understand all mormon beliefs.

Mormoms believe God has a wife. I am afraid APac will not be able to anser you.

 

[johannahw]

First of all I want to say I’m glad that A Pac was banned. He has said some mean and sarcastic things to myself and other.

Nevertheless, my husband wanted me to post the following;

Does God have a wife? Of course He does. We call Her God. In the Old Testament, the Jews were not permitted to speak or write the name of God. They wrote the tetragrammaton YHVH (or YHWH). In the tetragrammaton, the YH is male, the VH or WH is female. God is equal parts male and female. That is how God could create people, male and female, in his image. As a spirit Creature, God can and does have both male and female characteristics. Thus, those who attempt to use male and female in an effort to disprove a literal Interpretation of “in our image” fall flat. Also, El Shaddai, a name used for God in Genesis 17:1, 28:3, 35:11, 43:14, 48:3 and Exodus 6:3 literally means the God who nourishes, or suckles me.* God is both male and female. Thus, when Mormons speak of the “wife” of God, or of our Mother in Heaven, we are merely referring to the female side of God. How we write it, or speak it may not always make it that clear, but that is What we are referring to, or should be. If Smith believed that God has a spirit female mate, he was wrong about that, too. He took a revelation from God and gave a too human interpretation to it. Another prophetic mistake.

Plus, the concept of spiritual sex is too absurd to even think about. God created us from the dust of the ground. He did not need sex to even create our spirits. Such a belief would limit God, and it would make his wife a part of the creative force. Thus, we would not have a trinity, but a quadruplety. And why can’t a woman in heaven have many husbands to create spiritual children and her own worlds? This is blatantly sexist. Again, if Smith came up with this notion, he was wrong.

 

[ABostonCatholic]

First of all I want to say I’m glad that A Pac was banned. He has said some mean and sarcastic things to myself and other.

Me too. Though such childish behavior does cause me to pray more

Nevertheless, my husband wanted me to post the following;

Does God have a wife? Of course He does. We call Her God. In the Old Testament, the Jews were not permitted to speak or write the name of God. They wrote the tetragrammaton YHVH (or YHWH). In the tetragrammaton, the YH is male, the VH or WH is female. God is equal parts male and female. That is how God could create people, male and female, in his image. As a spirit Creature, God can and does have both male and female characteristics. Thus, those who attempt to use male and female in an effort to disprove a literal Interpretation of “in our image” fall flat. Also, El Shaddai, a name used for God in Genesis 17:1, 28:3, 35:11, 43:14, 48:3 and Exodus 6:3 literally means the God who nourishes, or suckles me.* God is both male and female. Thus, when Mormons speak of the “wife” of God, or of our Mother in Heaven, we are merely referring to the female side of God. How we write it, or speak it may not always make it that clear, but that is What we are referring to, or should be. If Smith believed that God has a spirit female mate, he was wrong about that, too. He took a revelation from God and gave a too human interpretation to it. Another prophetic mistake.

Plus, the concept of spiritual sex is too absurd to even think about. God created us from the dust of the ground. He did not need sex to even create our spirits. Such a belief would limit God, and it would make his wife a part of the creative force. Thus, we would not have a trinity, but a quadruplety. And why can’t a woman in heaven have many husbands to create spiritual children and her own worlds? This is blatantly sexist. Again, if Smith came up with this notion, he was wrong.

I’ve heard this from secular scholars before, that God’s name is both masculine and feminine. In a certain sense, I think it could be orthodox. But it would work only as long as God is strictly spiritual. Of course, God incarnate is a man. Jesus had a penis, and He could have used it if the Father so willed. But the Father has no body, so He can be understood as being both male and female and neither male nor female. But if He has a body (which Mormons believe, right?), He would normally need to be one or the other…unless we want to say He is a hermaphrodite

 

[Kristine1957]

Thank you everyone for answering the thread. I have always wondered where the Heavenly mother came from and of course the spirit children. But I guess that was just another one of Joseph Smiths fantasies.