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xixxvmcm85
Guest
Yes, they “…] ignore the heavens that birds fly in.” The 3 heavens are in referrence to 3 specific partitions of heaven. The most devout of LDS go to the “highest glory” AKA the Celestial Kingdom, Those who lead decent lives but never completed the most “basic” of LDS ordinances (including a Temple marriage) gain the second degree of glory AKA the Terrestrial Kingdom. Those who lead evil lives gained the Telestial Kingdom (3rd Heaven) and those who flat out denied Jesus in front of his face (this is of course “Jesus” in the LDS standard) went to “Hell” AKA Outer Darkness.Yes, I got that part. So, they ignore the heaven that birds fly in, and count three other heavens… and it seems that the only true “hell” is the “outer darkness” or something like that. So there appears to be 4 states/places total for the end.
The description Zerinus gave me earlier was a bit misleading…
JSjr also seems to overlook that in the book of Revelation, John was granted superhuman power to “hear” all of creation. And it is quite odd, that in preaching to the dead that Jesus just didn’t turn all of their “ears” on to hear him – so he had to say the message only once for all. After all he had to preach to at least the justified so they could know his message – the speaking in tongues miracle at Pentecost shows that God knows how to do that kind of thing for big crowds even with language barrier problems.
The incident doesn’t say the apostles “spoke” all these different tongues, just that everyone heard them in their own tongue.
How much of a gospel did he have to preach to them for the preaching to be sufficient in LDS thinking?
Not to mention that the only LDS I talked to mentioned that St. John was never to die, and I think 4 others in the Americas — but they all disappeared from the tangible earth. Are we to understand he imagined them Translated into the Celestial kingdom?
That is exactly the kind of thing which would be interesting to talk about, in addition to obvious biblical clashes. Do you recall where this might be stated, in D&C or someplace else?
ibid.
Yes, indeed, there were 3 (not 4) others BESIDES St. John who “never tasted death” (in LDS theology). These other 3 were all Nephites.
Essentially, as you seem to point out, these 3 (plus St. John) never tasted death, however they have yet to resurrect or be “exalted”. These 4 individuals in LDS theology are STILL roaming the earth and making converts of the LDS gospel as mortal men.
Growing up LDS I understood all of this to be the evidence of a just and merciful God. “God wouldn’t damn a segment of his creation based solely on geographical location or cultural upbringing” so it seemed only logical that God would extend something like “Temple Baptisms” to those that have pased on without having had the oportunity to hear and accept the Gospel.
However understanding the concept of “Baptism of desire” really makes all that’s done inside an LDS Temple (as far as post-human salvific ordinances) utterly moot.