Mormons - Holy Ghost

[Janderich]

ah I see, we do not have the same understanding of who God is. I would say that the Mormon understanding is not the same as the Christian understanding. In Christian theology only God is eternal and God created matter out of nothing.

I would say God who created matter from nothing is more godlike than a god who can only organize matter. I could never worship such a limited god.

It’s not about limited or not. It is about truth. Who is God? I wish you well in your worship.

 

[LivingWaters7]

I don’t agree with the quote either. However, I do believe it happened and there is a valid source for the statement. I think you are doing a lot of back peddling to hedge your original comment. But no matter it is not a major concern.

Nice try. Please read carefully. I did no back peddling. Indeed, you claimed that I said something that I quite clearly did not (and I specifically cited my previous statement in refutation to your claim of what I said). The original post can be read here. Please do not make false claims about my statements again.

I agree that it is not a major concern. My point is merely that the LDS that use this argument in support of their position (otherwise, why else would it be referred to) seem to have not logically thought out the issue (or are not aware of the beliefs of other churches, as already mentioned), no more than the individual making the claim of either Mormons or Catholics.

 

[SteveVH]

It’s not about limited or not. It is about truth. Who is God? I wish you well in your worship.

Yes, I agree. It is about truth. And the truth is that any god who is dependent upon anything else in order to “create” is not omnipotent. He is, rather, dependent. The God of Christianity simply speaks and it is done; “Let there be light…”.

LDS theology anthropomorphizes God, which is consistent with its doctrine of progression. He must have a body of flesh and bone. He must procreate with a goddess of the opposite sex in order to create his human children. He is limited by the laws of physics, his own creation (organization). And, he has still not realized his full potential as he is still progressing.

The God of Christianity is altogether different than his creation. He alone is divine. He alone is eternal. He alone is God, of everything that is, period.

8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. 9“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

The truth is that the LDS have created a god of their own making who is really not much different than you and I. He just had the luck to be at the front of the train, so to speak.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

I don’t agree with the quote either. However, I do believe it happened and there is a valid source for the statement. I think you are doing a lot of back peddling to hedge your original comment. But no matter it is not a major concern.

Janderich, this is bordering on the absurd! I think it’s obvious to anyone who has been paying attention to this thread that LivingWaters7 was chastising LDS for using the unnamed Catholic Priest anecdote because it presents a false dichotomy as to which church is the “True Church”. Rather than address the fact that it is indeed a false dichotomy you’ve latched onto the word “unnamed” and have reconstructed (i.e. made a Straw Man Argument of) LivingWaters7’s statement, making it appear as if his criticism of the anecdote is that it likely never happened.

LivingWaters7 has provided other possibilities this unnamed “learned Roman Catholic” didn’t think of when assessing that it must either be the LDS or the Catholics who have it right. Any of the other Apostolic Churches or other non-Mormon Restorationist Churches. If this learned Roman Catholic is willing to humor the foundational claims of Mormonism why wouldn’t he also humor those of the Stone-Campbell Movement? or the Watchtower Bible Tract Society? or the Seventh Day Adventists? What makes Joseph Smith more credible than Charles Taze Russell or Ellen G. White?

And why discount the Protestants entirely simply because they “came from the Catholics”? That’s judging Protestantism on Catholicism’s terms (in which case I would’ve expected this learned Roman Catholic to do similarly with Mormonism: Mormonism must also be ipso facto wrong because it “came from Protestantism”). Who’s to say Anglicanism’s “Branch Theory” isn’t correct, in which case the Anglican Communion is just as much authentic as Catholicism or Orthodoxy? What about the continental Lutherans who still have Bishops? Why not consider them? What about the non-LDS Mormons? Why not the RLDS? Why not the Strangites? Why not the Bickertonites? Why not one of the Fundamentalist offshoots?

Still yet, what if there is no “True Church”? All churches, including the LDS and Catholic churches could be wrong. What if the Evangelical belief in the “Invisible Church” is correct? What if there was a Great Apostasy and we’re still in it!?

 

[SteveVH]

Janderich, this is bordering on the absurd! I think it’s obvious to anyone who has been paying attention to this thread that LivingWaters7 was chastising LDS for using the unnamed Catholic Priest anecdote because it presents a false dichotomy as to which church is the “True Church”. Rather than address the fact that it is indeed a false dichotomy you’ve latched onto the word “unnamed” and have reconstructed (i.e. made a Straw Man Argument of) LivingWaters7’s statement, making it appear as if his criticism of the anecdote is that it likely never happened.

LivingWaters7 has provided other possibilities this unnamed “learned Roman Catholic” didn’t think of when assessing that it must either be the LDS or the Catholics who have it right. Any of the other Apostolic Churches or other non-Mormon Restorationist Churches. If this learned Roman Catholic is willing to humor the foundational claims of Mormonism why wouldn’t he also humor those of the Stone-Campbell Movement? or the Watchtower Bible Tract Society? or the Seventh Day Adventists? What makes Joseph Smith more credible than Charles Taze Russell or Ellen G. White?

And why discount the Protestants entirely simply because they “came from the Catholics”? That’s judging Protestantism on Catholicism’s terms (in which case I would’ve expected this learned Roman Catholic to do similarly with Mormonism: Mormonism must also be ipso facto wrong because it “came from Protestantism”). Who’s to say Anglicanism’s “Branch Theory” isn’t correct, in which case the Anglican Communion is just as much authentic as Catholicism or Orthodoxy? What about the continental Lutherans who still have Bishops? Why not consider them? What about the non-LDS Mormons? Why not the RLDS? Why not the Strangites? Why not the Bickertonites? Why not one of the Fundamentalist offshoots?

Still yet, what if there is no “True Church”? All churches, including the LDS and Catholic churches could be wrong. What if the Evangelical belief in the “Invisible Church” is correct? What if there was a Great Apostasy and we’re still in it!?

One of the wonderful things I find in Catholicism is the fact that we can rely on the comforting words of Christ; that he will remain with us until the end of time and will not leave us orphans. This is precisely why the gates of hell will never prevail against it and why there was no “Great Apostasy”. Christ, the Head, is in charge. It is the most ancient organization on earth. So far he has kept his promise and I think we can have the utmost confidence that this will continue.

 

[PaulDupre1]

One of the wonderful things I find in Catholicism is the fact that we can rely on the comforting words of Christ; that he will remain with us until the end of time and will not leave us orphans. This is precisely why the gates of hell will never prevail against it and why there was no “Great Apostasy”. Christ, the Head, is in charge. It is the most ancient organization on earth. So far he has kept his promise and I think we can have the utmost confidence that this will continue.

True! The Catholic Church has also done more good for the world and its people than any other organization in history.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)