Mortal Sin or Grave Matter

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I have not been on this website long but I have read " --------- is a mortal sin". What, I think, should be said is ---------- is a grave offense. We can’t know if others commit a mortal sin. We are not to judge people. For a sin to be mortal besides grave matter it has to be done with full knowledge and complete consent of the will.
Paul said he does things he does not want to do. That sounds like incomplete consent to me. Also, full knowledge means, at least to me, a person has to know he is cutting himself from God’s grace.
 
Full knowledge is far more than just being told, it’s a realization and full understanding of why it’s grave.

Jim
 
I don’t think your observation is incorrect, this does come up quite frequently. Typically posters do point out that there are conditions that must be met for a sin to be considered mortal (often linking to the catechism for reference).
 
Double negatives are hard to decipher. If you are saying people don’t say masturbation is a mortal sin on this web site, look again. Then I hear all the time people saying using birth control is a mortal sin or missing mass on Sunday. All Grave Matter.
 
I think that’s true. People tend to use the phrases interchangeably, but they really are different. I think that that what people mean to express is that it could be mortal sin. Maybe we need a new acronym. Grave Matter that Could Be Mortal Sin. GMTCBMS?
 
Theo2 said:
Double negatives are hard to decipher. If you are saying people don’t say masturbation is a mortal sin on this web site, look again. Then I hear all the time people saying using birth control is a mortal sin or missing mass on Sunday. All Grave Matter.
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Yes, it’s all grave matter.

But there is also semantics at play. For example:
  1. Purposefully missing mass on Sunday (without an excuse) is a “grave matter.”
  2. OBJECTIVELY, all grave matter is mortal sin
  3. However, SUBJECTIVELY, grave matter only becomes a mortal sin if the 3 conditions are met.
May (if not most) lay Catholics are only referring to the OBJECTIVE when determining whether a sin is Mortal or not. It’s really not up to lay people do determine whether a sin is SUBJECTIVELY mortal or not. All we can do is tell someone whether select sins are OBJECTIVELY mortal or not.

Also, some grave matter sins are almost always a Mortal Sin. For example: you would be hard pressed to find someone who will attempt to say adultery can be venial.

So yes, you are correct. However, when MOST people are asking about mortal vs venial, they simply want to know if they should go to confession or not. And we should not be telling someone not to go… Only a priest should be the one to tell someone that their grave matter (or “objectively mortal sin”) is not a mortal sin.

God Bless
 
Also the catechism is interesting: It is all about charity (love?).

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.
1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: “Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.” The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
 
The distinction of objectively or subjectively is good. I would never tell anyone their sin is not mortal as I do not have the data to decide. I can’t read their heart.

You say all objectively grave matter is mortal sin. Not sure that is correct.

Adultery can be venial. What about a slightly drunk sailor who isn’t thinking about what he is doing but just wants sex.
Now he may be at fault for drinking or not caring enough but he has not engaged his mind and will to offend God mortally by what he is doing.
 
Theo2 said:
Adultery can be venial. What about a slightly drunk sailor who isn’t thinking about what he is doing but just wants sex.
Now he may be at fault for drinking or not caring enough but he has not engaged his mind and will to offend God mortally by what he is doing.
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That’s not what I meant. I said “you would be hard pressed to find someone who will attempt to say adultery can be venial.” I didn’t say it was 100% impossible. However, I do think the chances of finding a real life example will be very difficult, if not practically impossible.

My point was that few people are going to ever argue that an act of adultery was venial, even if perhaps it was. Because, honestly, at least for men, it’s very difficult for most men to get that drunk and commit adultery, while being so drunk that the adultery was venial.

Furthermore, for a woman, she would have to be so drunk that it would border on date rape.

So I would argue that it’s pretty hard to find a real life situation of venial adultery, or at least a real life situation were most reasonable people would consider an act of adultery to be venial.

God Bless
 
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Phil,

What I hear is a judgment. You are well informed and work to have a correct conscious.
Many people don’t have your knowledge. They really don’t even think about it much.
Jesus said, “forgive them Father for they know not what they do”. Can’t be a mortal sin if they don’t know what they are doing. Instead of thinking all these people are committing mortal sins, pray for their forgiveness as Jesus did for they know not what they do.
 
Theo2 said:
I have not been on this website long but I have read " --------- is a mortal sin".
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Yes , it does get a little tedious .

I do feel sorry for the ones who genuinely post the stuff about “Is it mortal or is it venial?” I wonder what sort of image of God they have .

Many times I get the impression that they are confusing being tempted with sinning . Just a thought .
 
And a lot of the posters repeatedly asking this question are scrupulous. They should be speaking to their pastor or spiritual director; not looking to anonymous strangers on the internet for guidance.
 
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