Mortal Sin Question

[GailMac]

Dear Withquestions - I am happy that you have responded to my questions. You have an interesting view of sin. Although I cannot agree with you, I can commend you for acknowleging sin’s existence and even seeing it’s effects in your own life. That takes humility. Keep it up.

However, you state this to explain part of your views on sins: “That having been said, I don’t believe in two classifications of sin, just that all sins do not have the same seriousness (except in a very narrow sense).”

I would like to provide a little bit of Scripture for you to think about. Perhaps you may accept the Truth of it, perhaps not at this point in your spiritual journey. It is from the first letter of St. John, Chapter 5. It goes like this: 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

As I see it, St. John is clearly stating that there is more than one variety of sin, those that are deadly, and those that are not. Those that are not deadly, a person living this thing we call Christianity should pray about. Those of the deadly variety, we should also pray about, but perhaps the implication here is that we should also act? Perhaps. What I do know is that this passage clearly states we should also pray for the brother we see sinning in a mortal, that is deadly, way. To this I will add here that this is where we trust the Divine Mercy. But you don’t have that yet. In the meantime, I will pray that you do someday.

Peace,

Gail

 

[With_Questions]

This belief of your’s is contrary to the Word of God …

*Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.
*

-- ** 1 Corinthians 6:9-10**​

Dear Sir Knight.

I could if I choose to, answer your objections.

However, I have decided that I will no longer debate in this thread. I know what the consensus here is. I do not know whether the consensus here is the true teaching of Catholicism or even representative of Catholics as a whole. This is based on other writing from other Catholic sources I have found. However, I have decided I will not debate this writing on this thread.

You are free to interpret the Bible as you will.

 

[ralphinal]

WQ,
If you do not mind, send me a link to the other forum that gave you different answers. I would like to see where they are coming from.

 

[steve_b]

OK now I have it.

You were saying that because it was mortal sin, he was therefore rejecting God. I thought you were saying it is not mortal sin until you are actively rejecting God.

one isn’t guilty of commiting sin until they act out on what is wrong.
WQ:

Of course I strongly disagree. And I have found another forum and other Catholic writings where the Catholics seem to disagree.

So I am done beating dead horses.

I would be curious how you would respond to these

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4221940&postcount=67
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4224182&postcount=85

 

[With_Questions]

Dear Withquestions - I am happy that you have responded to my questions. You have an interesting view of sin. Although I cannot agree with you, I can commend you for acknowleging sin’s existence and even seeing it’s effects in your own life. That takes humility. Keep it up.

However, you state this to explain part of your views on sins: “That having been said, I don’t believe in two classifications of sin, just that all sins do not have the same seriousness (except in a very narrow sense).”

I would like to provide a little bit of Scripture for you to think about. Perhaps you may accept the Truth of it, perhaps not at this point in your spiritual journey. It is from the first letter of St. John, Chapter 5. It goes like this: 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

As I see it, St. John is clearly stating that there is more than one variety of sin, those that are deadly, and those that are not. Those that are not deadly, a person living this thing we call Christianity should pray about. Those of the deadly variety, we should also pray about, but perhaps the implication here is that we should also act? Perhaps. What I do know is that this passage clearly states we should also pray for the brother we see sinning in a mortal, that is deadly, way. To this I will add here that this is where we trust the Divine Mercy. But you don’t have that yet. In the meantime, I will pray that you do someday.

Peace,

Gail

Gail:

My translation states “there is a sin leading to death” in 1 John 5:16. If I were to take this translation literally there is one sin. Of course other translations might translate this differently. And of course I do not know Greek so I have no way of verifying translations.

But why do you say that I do not have “Divine Mercy”? God has been very merciful to me.

 

[With_Questions]

one isn’t guilty of commiting sin until they act out on what is wrong.

I would be curious how you would respond to these

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4221940&postcount=67
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4224182&postcount=85

Since you are asking questions and not to beat a dead horse.

(1) My translation of 1 John 5 says “a sin leading to death”
(2) My translation indicates that Hebrews 26 starts a new paragraph. If the “For” in this verse is a reference to anything, it is the previous paragraph.

Anyway, to me the phrase “go on sinning willfully” implies a continuity in sin with a refusal to repent from it. The language “trampled under foot the son of God” and “regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant” implies a conscious rejection of God and the things of God.

So maybe if my hunter friend continued on missing mass and eventually decided he would prefer to do his own thing instead of God’s thing and subsequently turned his back on the faith perhaps Hebrews 10:26-31 would apply.

But even at that I am not sure because the language in this passage and also in Hebrews 6 implies a hopeless state (no longer a sacrifice for sin…impossible to renew them to repentance). While with Catholicism even with mortal sin you have hope in the confessional.

 

[With_Questions]

WQ,
If you do not mind, send me a link to the other forum that gave you different answers. I would like to see where they are coming from.

I will PM you with the two sources I have found as I have time. Very busy today and not feeling the greatest.

 

[ralphinal]

I will PM you with the two sources I have found as I have time. Very busy today and not feeling the greatest.

Take your time. Get better! You have my prayers

 

[GailMac]

Dear With Questions - The Divine Mercy is a Catholic devotion. It is pretty new and I really don’t think you know that much about it. It might be an option you might want to check out while you’re checking stuff out. www.thedivinemercy.org

But then again you’ll have problems with it because you’ll want to argue about stuff you don’t agree with. If you can’t even accept you may be a mortal sinner, how can God help you? You have your own ideas about sin. If you can’t admit that something you may or maynot have done is a big fat serious sin, then how can the Mercy of God work in your heart to help you? That’s what I mean.

Peace,

Gail

 

[With_Questions]

But then again you’ll have problems with it because you’ll want to argue about stuff you don’t agree with. If you can’t even accept you may be a mortal sinner, how can God help you? You have your own ideas about sin. If you can’t admit that something you may or maynot have done is a big fat serious sin, then how can the Mercy of God work in your heart to help you? That’s what I mean.

Either I have big time problems communicating and saying what I mean or you have totally missed what I am saying in order for you to make such presumptive and judgemental statements concerning my relationship with Jesus Christ.

Question. Is this the type of attitude that Catholics have towards Protestants that you feel you can stare into my soul and accuse me of not recognizing that I am a sinner per Romans 3:23. I really feel that what I am writing here is being distorted and grossly misinterpreted in the worst possible light.

Sheesh.

I think I will retire from this thread if not this forum. This is just getting much too weird for me.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Dear Sir Knight.

I could if I choose to, answer your objections.

However, I have decided that I will no longer debate in this thread. I know what the consensus here is. I do not know whether the consensus here is the true teaching of Catholicism or even representative of Catholics as a whole. This is based on other writing from other Catholic sources I have found. However, I have decided I will not debate this writing on this thread.

It is obviously your choice whether or not you answer my objection but until you address 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, your assertion that there is only one mortal sin stands refuted by the infallible Word of God.

You are free to interpret the Bible as you will.

In the interest of sharing what I know and LEARNING WHAT I DON’T, I would be most interested in learning what DIFFERENT interpretation you have of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10?

 

[steve_b]

(1) My translation of 1 John 5 says “a sin leading to death”

sin leading to death i.e. mortal sin. Mortal is synonymous with deadly. But notice also in the same passage, NOT all sin is deadly (mortal) i.e.venial

Did you also notice that venial sin can be prayed about but John says, he doesn’t recommend that with mortal sin?
WQ:

Anyway, to me the phrase “go on sinning willfully” implies a continuity in sin with a refusal to repent from it.

The context is not just continuing to sin in general, but specifically “failing to meet”. And it carries with it terrible consequences for THAT person. [Heb 10:27]

Do you know why?
WQ:

The language “trampled under foot the son of God” and “regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant” implies a conscious rejection of God and the things of God.

Are you using the NASB? If so, I quote the NASB from a Protestant site, with Protestant footnotes.

I left the footnotes operational. BTW, some of these footnotes I have to say, avoid or minimize some very important context. We can talk about that also.

(all emphasis in the quote is theirs)

:
"25 not forsaking our own (AW)assembling together, as is the habit of some, but (AX)encouraging one another; and all the more as you see (AY)the day drawing near.
Christ or Judgment

26 For if we go on (AZ)sinning willfully after receiving (BA)the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

27 but a terrifying expectation of (BB)judgment and (BC)THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28(BD)Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29(BE)How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve (BF)who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean (BG)the blood of the covenant (BH)by which he was sanctified, and has (BI)insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, "(BJ)VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY " And again, “(BK)THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.”

I know you have questions. But sometimes questions can best be answered by asking

questions:

1. 
   *]Why has one who fails to meet, seen to have "treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? "
   *]And why is that person liable to a fiery judgement?
   As a hint, look for “blood of the covenant” in your translation, and notice the context.
   WQ:
   

   So maybe if my hunter friend continued on missing mass and eventually decided he would prefer to do his own thing instead of God’s thing and subsequently turned his back on the faith perhaps Hebrews 10:26-31 would apply.

   The warning is real and very direct… There is no “perhaps”
   WQ:
   

   But even at that I am not sure because the language in this passage and also in Hebrews 6 implies a hopeless state (no longer a sacrifice for sin…

   why is such a strong condemnation and consequence attached to missing mass? Why is the following said?
   
   “no longer a sacrifice for sin” but a “a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries”
   
   Please explain from your perspective?
   WQ:
   

   While with Catholicism even with mortal sin you have hope in the confessional.

   True