'Mortal Sin'

[Genesius]

I’m sure there have been a ton of threads and posts about this topic. The only reason I am posting another one is that I was listening to an episode of CAL on the radio once and got the impression that the conditions for Mortal Sin have been vanquished and that now the understanding is that a serious sin is just Mortal…end of story. Of course, previously in order for a *‘Grave Sin’ *to be *‘Mortal’ *it had have the following conditions attached:

1. It has to be Grave sin.
2. The person committing it has to KNOW it is Grave sin.
3. The person committing it has to do so WILLINGLY.

Is my understanding wrong? Has the Church’s definition changed or not?

Thank you in advance for all your responses. Godbless.

 

[Gertabelle]

I didn’t hear the broadcast, so I don’t know what was said that may have confused you. But here is the official teaching of the Church from the Catechism:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: “Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.” The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

Hope this helps a little

Gertie

 

[Bookcat]

I’m sure there have been a ton of threads and posts about this topic. The only reason I am posting another one is that I was listening to an episode of CAL on the radio once and got the impression that the conditions for Mortal Sin have been vanquished and that now the understanding is that a serious sin is just Mortal…end of story. Of course, previously in order for a *‘Grave Sin’ *to be *‘Mortal’ *it had have the following conditions attached:

1. It has to be Grave sin.
2. The person committing it has to KNOW it is Grave sin.
3. The person committing it has to do so WILLINGLY.

Is my understanding wrong? Has the Church’s definition changed or not?

Thank you in advance for all your responses. Godbless.

It is just the use of words that is throwing you off…

Mortal sin, Serious sin, Grave sin

The Church uses these terms in two senses. And in both senses the terms grave sin, mortal sin, and serious sin are* interchangeable*.

Here are the two senses:
Murder is a grave sin.
Murder is a serious sin.
Murder is a mortal sin.

(all three mean the same)

this is one way the Church use the term. Talking about the ‘moral object’ of the act or the ‘objective kind of sin’. Referring to the object itself. Like if I said…do not commit murder for that is a mortal sin.

Then there is this way…
I committed the grave sin of Murder
I committed the serious sin of Murder
I committed the mortal sin of Murder

(all three mean the same)

This is speaking of when the thing I committed is grave matter …done with full knowledge and deliberate (complete) consent.

Both are true. Both are ways the terms get use in Church documents

---

When speaking about what a mortal (grave sin, serious) sin is…that is when it is committed. For clarity it is best to use the language that the Catechism and the Compendium uses…“grave matter”.

Thus it is good to say “murder is a grave matter” and if you do it with full knowledge and complete consent…then one commits a mortal sin (grave sin, serious sin).

 

[Bookcat]

As to the three conditions the Catechism states:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

The Compendium of the Catechism states:

1. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

1. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html#A)%20COMMON%20PRAYERS%20COMMON%20PRAYERS)

vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

 

[Genesius]

Okay, Thank you for all the wonderful responses. I learned a bit more than I already knew. However, this also brings to my mind another question as a relatively new convert…CAN the Church change the definition…or rather, further define such things? In other words, if tomorrow the Magisterium decided that they are going to, in fact, redefine mortal sin as any serious sin without the conditions that are currently attached, would that be an option; something they would have the authority to do?

 

[Ron_Conte]

The Magisterium cannot redefine or change any past infallible teaching, which includes those teachings infallible under the universal magisterium (because they are universally taught by the Popes and the Bishops). The teaching on what constitutes actual mortal sin is infallible and so cannot be changed.

Any act that is objectively gravely immoral is an objective mortal sin. When an objective mortal sin is committed with full knowledge that the act is gravely immoral, and with full consent, then it is an actual mortal sin.

Murder is an objective mortal sin; committing murder with full knowledge and consent is an actual mortal sin.

The use of contraception is an objective mortal sin; committing the sin of contraception with full knowledge and consent is an actual mortal sin.

Everyone who dies unrepentant from even one actual mortal sin will be sent to Hell by God.

 

[Genesius]

The Magisterium cannot redefine or change any past infallible teaching, which includes those teachings infallible under the universal magisterium (because they are universally taught by the Popes and the Bishops). The teaching on what constitutes actual mortal sin is infallible and so cannot be changed.

Any act that is objectively gravely immoral is an objective mortal sin. When an objective mortal sin is committed with full knowledge that the act is gravely immoral, and with full consent, then it is an actual mortal sin.

Murder is an objective mortal sin; committing murder with full knowledge and consent is an actual mortal sin.

The use of contraception is an objective mortal sin; committing the sin of contraception with full knowledge and consent is an actual mortal sin.

Everyone who dies unrepentant from even one actual mortal sin will be sent to Hell by God.

So, the issue here is semantics. Rather than using the terms ‘objective mortal sin’ and ‘actual mortal sin’, wouldn’t it be easier to just say ‘grave sin’ or ‘grave matter’ and ‘mortal sin’ which seems to be less confusing? In other words, I have always thought that many times when people call in and use the term ‘mortal sin’ what they are really asking is, is this an ‘objective mortal sin’ or is this ‘grave matter’? However, sometimes they really are asking if the 3 conditions are present and therefore is it ‘mortal sin’ for me personally, and so it can be confusing to both the guest, the caller, and the listener.

Again, I don’t know if that is an approved way of using the terms or not, but it sounds feasable from all the responses I’ve received in this thread.

 

[catharina]

I’m sure there have been a ton of threads and posts about this topic. The only reason I am posting another one is that I was listening to an episode of CAL on the radio once and got the impression that the conditions for Mortal Sin have been vanquished and that now the understanding is that a serious sin is just Mortal…end of story. Of course, previously in order for a *‘Grave Sin’ *to be *‘Mortal’ *it had have the following conditions attached:

1. It has to be Grave sin.
2. The person committing it has to KNOW it is Grave sin.
3. The person committing it has to do so WILLINGLY.

Is my understanding wrong? Has the Church’s definition changed or not?

Thank you in advance for all your responses. Godbless.

Actually I’ve never heard your definition.

I’m a cradle Catholic and in the 1950s all students memorized this:

Q. What makes a sin mortal?
A. Serious matter, sufficient reflection and full consent of the will.

That’s very similar to the definition you use.

As others have said, the words ‘serious, mortal, and grave’ are used interchangably.
So I don’t really understand your question, maybe?

 

[Bookcat]

So, the issue here is semantics. Rather than using the terms ‘objective mortal sin’ and ‘actual mortal sin’, wouldn’t it be easier to just say ‘grave sin’ or ‘grave matter’ and ‘mortal sin’ which seems to be less confusing? In other words, I have always thought that many times when people call in and use the term ‘mortal sin’ what they are really asking is, is this an ‘objective mortal sin’ or is this ‘grave matter’? However, sometimes they really are asking if the 3 conditions are present and therefore is it ‘mortal sin’ for me personally, and so it can be confusing to both the guest, the caller, and the listener.

Again, I don’t know if that is an approved way of using the terms or not, but it sounds feasable from all the responses I’ve received in this thread.

yes as I noted above…

the best thing is to use “grave matter”…such a thing is a “grave matter” for mortal sin…if done with full knowledge and complete consent …such would be a mortal sin (grave sin, serious sin…as the Church uses in some places).

It all depends on what the person is asking.

Yes of course one could answer…murder is a mortal sin or grave sin or serious sin…

but if the person asks did I commit a mortal sin (grave sin)? then one needs to go thru the three aspects of what a mortal sin is…saying grave matter…etc

 

[Bookcat]

By the way…great name! a early Martyr name!

 

[Bookcat]

My articles on: the Trinity, the Virgin Mary, Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium
Q & A on Catholic Marital Sexual Ethics
My translation of the Bible: CPDV/ QUOTE]

PS: Readers please note:

These web pages above are **not **recommended sources for Catholic sexual ethics…other areas too are of private opinion or are problematic or incorrect from a theological or canonical view.

Instead seek out sources such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church and books for sale from Catholic Answers.

 

[Genesius]

By the way…great name! a early Martyr name!

Thank you, Bookcat. When I converted I was conditionally baptized and chose him as my baptism name since he is, among other things, a patron saint of both musicians and comedians of which I am both.

I was inspired to write a ballad about the martyrdom of St. Polycarp of Smyrna on my way home to Mother Church and everyone I have given a copy to was sure I would have chosen him as my baptism name.

Not to digress from the thread, however…

 

[mdgspencer]

I think the old conditions for mortal sin are common sense. How can we commit a mortal sin unless we are fully willing to do this? Someone on another thread was a college student who simply saw a pornographic image on a friend’s computer, and he wondered if this was a mortal sin. He didn’t know that you had to be willing to do wrong for it to be a sin. If we throw out the old conditions, we would believe such absurdities and thinking such a thing can be a mortal sin, To say too that mortal sins are exceedingly rare as some dissenting theologians say and that not many people commit them, is against what Christ said, During the sermon on the mount he said seven times that those who do the wrongs he identifed then will be punished with the eternal fire. Don’t throw out the traditional teaching found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.