Mortal sins, venial sins and working out our salvation with fear and trembling

[The_Iambic_Pen]

I originally posted the following post in the thread My Response to Angry Anti-Catholic, but have reposted it here, as I believe it is more relevant to this discussion.

Cathoholic:

Part of the issue here is that in Protestantism you were taught that justification is a moment. It is a moment, but it’s not merely a moment. It is also a process, a lifelong process.

Well, I guess I see this as two different things. When we confess with our mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, we are saved. I mean that in the sense that if we were to die immediately after sincerely making this confession of faith, we would go to Heaven. The passage that follows (Romans 10:5-13) illustrates what I’m talking about.

Romans 10:5 Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: “The man who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

The lifelong process you speak of I would define as growing into the person God desires us to be. Without making the initial confession of faith, we cannot enter into this glorious process (though God can certainly use our “pre-conversion” experiences for our benefit). When we first confess Christ as Lord, we are still showing many traits of our former life. However, day by day, as we grow in our faith and trust in God, He molds us into the person He wants us to be. So, while the act of accepting Christ’s salvation (and ensuring our place in Heaven and our names in the Book of Life) is an immediate event, our growth as Christ’s followers is a continual process.

Now, one could certainly make the case that after accepting Christ’s sacrifice, it would be possible for a person to completely reject Christ and return to their sinful ways. Protestants as a whole disagree on whether one can lose one’s salvation. Personally, I think a person can reject their salvation. I don’t really like the word “lose” in this case, as it seems to imply that we can do it accidentally.

Anyway, there’s an overview of Evangelical thought on salvation. Granted, I can’t claim to speak for every Evangelical, but I think most would agree with me. So, as always, please bear with me and my Protestant ways… God Bless!

Thanks for all the responses! God Bless!

 

[Atreyu]

Iambic pen in the other thread you posted the following:

Well, I’m not saying that’s what I think about Catholicism. However, I am a little confused about all of this. Here’s another way of explaining it. We as Protestants (generally) believe that when we confess with our mouths, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved. We are now His children. Now, look at this from a human example. If your children did wrong, would you cut them off and treat them as if you didn’t know them? Wouldn’t you instead try to bring them back into a right relationship with you? That’s why the whole idea of losing one’s salvation is foreign to us. Now, deliberately rejecting one’s salvation is a different matter, and this is where I break with the “once saved, always saved” crowd.

The way I see it is that a mortal sin, by its very nature, is “deliberately rejecting one’s salvation”. And so I would say that your view on salvation is actually quite similar to the Catholic’s view.

Now about anathema, I invite you to read the following discussion between Gary Hoge (from catholicoutlook.com) and Tim Enloe (Reformed Protestant apologist). I found it very helpful:
click me.

 

[Mot_Juste]

Iambic Pen,

There have been several good answers so far. I’d like to elaborate on one point.
The Iambic Pen:

However, I still struggle with the idea that one sin can move a person from a state of “if I die now I’ll to Heaven,” to “if I die now, I’ll go to Hell.” I don’t believe in eternal security, but it seems that losing one’s salvation would require not just a single act, but rather a complete change.

Like many of the difficulties you’ve raised, I think this one owes a lot to miscommunication and misunderstanding. The easy answer is that you’re absolutely correct that the transition from salvation to damnation is a complete change. But there’s also no such thing as being “in-between” – 40% saved, 60% damned, for example. So the transition from one state to the other happens at a specific point in time and for a specific reason. The name we give that time and reason is “mortal sin”. Damnation does not occur because of an accumulation of little faults, any more than salvation occurs because of the accumulation of works. The triggering event is a cataclysmic and complete change in your relationship with God.
Look at the definition of mortal sin:
Nekić:

A mortal sin must fit three categories.

1. It must be of GRAVE MATTER (eg. murder, immoral sexual acts, etc)
2. You must KNOW it is of grave matter
3. Your choice to make the sin MUST NOT BE IMPEDED

This is not something you can do by accident. Despite the lists you may see that attempt to categorize specific sins as mortal or venial, the distinction is ultimately personal. It depends on where you are and how you understand God’s will for your life and your ability to act on that knowledge.

–Bill

 

[javelin]

Iambic Pen:

Well, I guess I see this as two different things. When we confess with our mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, we are saved. I mean that in the sense that if we were to die immediately after sincerely making this confession of faith, we would go to Heaven.
…
The lifelong process you speak of I would define as growing into the person God desires us to be. Without making the initial confession of faith, we cannot enter into this glorious process.

What you said above is completely aligned with Catholic teaching, from everything that I know.

The Church teaches that at one’s baptism, one is made new in Christ, and completely cleansed of all sin by the imparting of sanctifying Grace. If one was to perish immediately afterward, they would certainly be destined for heaven.

The “lifelong process” you spoke of is often called “sanctification”; the process of becoming more like Christ, or saints.

But our initial justification does not mean that we no longer sin, nor does it mean that our eventual salvation is assured. It gives us power over sin, through Grace, enabling us to choose rightly and grow in that Grace. But we can (and still will at times) reject God by choosing against Him.

One thing that was very enlightening to me was ponted out by someone on these boards a while ago. Most Christians will accept that we must “believe” in Christ in order to be saved. Do you know what is often listed in the Bible as the opposite of belief? Disobedience. Sacred Scripture lays out exactly how we are to believe – through obedience. It is in acting in disobedience to God’s commandments that we live out disbelief in His Lordship and sovereignty in our lives.

We can quickly see, then, how it is possible to reject our salvation – through disobedience to Christ, which is exactly what mortal sin is.

See Luke 12:42-48. Here is a great example of the difference between mortal and venial sin, and highlights the Church’s distinction. The one servant knew the master’s will and deliberately disobeyed. He was “beated with many stripes” and the master “will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers”. That is mortal sin, moving from a state of grace to being cast out with the unbelievers. The servant who did not know his master’s will, and disobeyed, received only a light beating and was not cast out. That is venial sin. Thus we see that knowledge of the wrongdoing is an essential aspect of the gravity of the sin, and can be a distinction between whether it is mortal or venial.

Hope this helps.

Peace,
javelin