Msgr. Perl of the Pont. Comm. “Ecclesia Dei”: we are drafting an instruction on the interpretation of Summorum Pontificum [Fr. Z]

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JKirkLVNV said:
Please, please, you seem like a reasonable person. I can’t get Bob to point it out or Walking Home, so maybe YOU could. Where has ANYONE bashed the SSPX? Where has anyone attacked them? Please? Anybody?
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I should have said “scrutiny” instead of “attacks”.
Anyhow, I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular on this thread.

It’s just the way folks jump at the chance to “warn” everyone when a new thread pops up with SSPX in the title or OP. Never fails. Even if it is a simple question like “which missal does the SSPX use?” Someone will just have to say something like, “In case you didn’t know, the SSPX are in schism. Here, read this.”

Thing is, this forum has many regular contributors who are good catholics. And after examining Church documents and learning some history of the Church, we figure we know more than the average catholic does about the Church. And we do. The average Catholic can learn more about the Church by coming here and asking questions. We are good teachers as far as basic Catholicism is concerned.

But most of us are not very good canon lawyers, theologions, or inquisitors. That’s why far too many debates and discussions turn into arguments.
 
I_Believe said:
I should have said “scrutiny” instead of “attacks”.
Anyhow, I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular on this thread.

It’s just the way folks jump at the chance to “warn” everyone when a new thread pops up with SSPX in the title or OP. Never fails. Even if it is a simple question like “which missal does the SSPX use?” Someone will just have to say something like, “In case you didn’t know, the SSPX are in schism. Here, read this.”

Thing is, this forum has many regular contributors who are good catholics. And after examining Church documents and learning some history of the Church, we figure we know more than the average catholic does about the Church. And we do. The average Catholic can learn more about the Church by coming here and asking questions. We are good teachers as far as basic Catholicism is concerned.

But most of us are not very good canon lawyers, theologions, or inquisitors. That’s why far too many debates and discussions turn into arguments.
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The point is, the Church has spoken again and again regarding the SSPX in more than a few official documents. We don’t need to make the interpretation. One of the problems with the SSPX is that they don’t say “There’s no document that says such and such”. They simply say “The Church is wrong in this matter”. Unfortunately for them, they aren’t the Supreme Legislator.

I personally hope that there is a document soon that says the whole situation with the SSPX is resolved. I think we can all agree upon this one.👍
 
JKirkLVNV said:
I can only attribute that to a recurring problem you apparently with comprehending written text. I’ve spent a lot of time decrying the abuses of the innovators, with this caveat, which people like you don’t believe: it ain’t that widespread. Where it happens, it’s notorious, but it just doesn’t happen as much as you and Traditio and Novus Ordo Watch would like the rest of us to believe (ie, that every Mass is right out of Cardinal Mahoney’s play book, that every Mass Mass involves Doritos and dancing, etc., etc.).
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Kirk, with all the youtube videos floating around, with all the reports that are received and with all the photographs that are available how can you sit there with a straight face and say

IT AIN’T WIDESPREAD

Heck you make it sound like the abuses happen once every two or three years and the rest of the time every Pauline Mass is done perfectly and according to the rubrics.

You know Kirk, I’ll tell you one thing, if the Pauline Rite was celebrated properly and had been celebrated properly over the years, I suspect you would not have near the demand you have for the Traditional Mass now. Most people want orthodoxy and reverence in the Mass. They don’t want the clappy happy good time soft shoe religion that is pushed at many if not most Pauline Masses,
 
Thank you to all who have wrote to the Ecclesia Dei Commission over the issues they will address in this letter.

We will have answer to the altar girl thing, to the extraordinary minister thing, to the diocese that restrict celebration of the TLM in place of the NO during the Triduum.

As I said when the MP came out the Bishop can no longer restrict celebration of the TLM and cannot issue “guidelines” for it that go beyond the MP. No women allowed in the Sanctuary period and no extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion no matter what current canon law the liberals quote. No communion in the hand, no standing for holy communion, no “gather us in to sing about ourselves” music.

Ken
 
palmas85 said:
Kirk, with all the youtube videos floating around, with all the reports that are received and with all the photographs that are available how can you sit there with a straight face and say

IT AIN’T WIDESPREAD

Heck you make it sound like the abuses happen once every two or three years and the rest of the time every Pauline Mass is done perfectly and according to the rubrics.

You know Kirk, I’ll tell you one thing, if the Pauline Rite was celebrated properly and had been celebrated properly over the years, I suspect you would not have near the demand you have for the Traditional Mass now. Most people want orthodoxy and reverence in the Mass. They don’t want the clappy happy good time soft shoe religion that is pushed at many if not most Pauline Masses,
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And as far as the “Pauline Mass” goes- even celebrated “properly” with all that is allowed I still cannot stand it- cannot stand it- it drives me crazy- it is pure penance for me every time I attend it and watch all the altar girls, lay ministers of holy communion, all the women parading around up there - all legal. Christ taken off the cross in the Sanctuary- also off the processional cross. Communion in the hand, lame sing about ourselves guitar strumming music, glory and praise protestant hippie hymnal, I can go on and on as to WHY I am registered at Mater Ecclesiae and would rather drive 40 miles there to raise my kids in what they see happening in the Sanctuary, and hear in the Church.

Ken
 
kleary said:
And as far as the “Pauline Mass” goes- even celebrated “properly” with all that is allowed I still cannot stand it- cannot stand it- it drives me crazy- it is pure penance for me every time I attend it and watch all the altar girls, lay ministers of holy communion, all the women parading around up there - all legal. Christ taken off the cross in the Sanctuary- also off the processional cross. Communion in the hand, lame sing about ourselves guitar strumming music, glory and praise protestant hippie hymnal, I can go on and on as to WHY I am registered at Mater Ecclesiae and would rather drive 40 miles there to raise my kids in what they see happening in the Sanctuary, and hear in the Church.

Ken
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Beautiful looking Church and Mass! Oh, if I could escape the usual NO la-la land where I live. However I did attend a NO once where the priest celebrated in Latin, ad orientam, no altar girls, faithful received at the altar rail on the tongue, Gregorian Chant, St. Michael prayer after Mass, etc. It was beautiful and how the NO should always be celebrated, but then again it might as well have been called a TLM.
 
SemperFidelis said:
Beautiful looking Church and Mass! Oh, if I could escape the usual NO la-la land where I live. However I did attend a NO once where the priest celebrated in Latin, ad orientam, no altar girls, faithful received at the altar rail on the tongue, Gregorian Chant, St. Michael prayer after Mass, etc. It was beautiful and how the NO should always be celebrated, but then again it might as well have been called a TLM.
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And if the liberals did not get ahold of things- maybe the SSPX schism would not have happened- and maybe I would not feel the necessity to escape the local parish for the sake of the souls of my children.

Ken
 
kleary said:
And if the liberals did not get ahold of things- maybe the SSPX schism would not have happened- and maybe I would not feel the necessity to escape the local parish for the sake of the souls of my children.

Ken
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I feel that one day soon, I might be in the same situation as you. Hopefully by the time I have children, I will be able to readily find a TLM-only parish within driving distance.
 
kleary said:
And as far as the “Pauline Mass” goes- even celebrated “properly” with all that is allowed I still cannot stand it- cannot stand it- it drives me crazy- it is pure penance for me every time I attend it and watch all the altar girls, lay ministers of holy communion, all the women parading around up there - all legal. Christ taken off the cross in the Sanctuary- also off the processional cross. Communion in the hand, lame sing about ourselves guitar strumming music, glory and praise protestant hippie hymnal, I can go on and on as to WHY I am registered at Mater Ecclesiae and would rather drive 40 miles there to raise my kids in what they see happening in the Sanctuary, and hear in the Church.

Ken
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And this is why we should fight for more churches like mine! Smells, bells, chant, organ…
 
kleary said:
And as far as the “Pauline Mass” goes- even celebrated “properly” with all that is allowed I still cannot stand it- cannot stand it- it drives me crazy- it is pure penance for me every time I attend it and watch all the altar girls, lay ministers of holy communion, all the women parading around up there - all legal. Christ taken off the cross in the Sanctuary- also off the processional cross. Communion in the hand, lame sing about ourselves guitar strumming music, glory and praise protestant hippie hymnal, I can go on and on as to WHY I am registered at Mater Ecclesiae and would rather drive 40 miles there to raise my kids in what they see happening in the Sanctuary, and hear in the Church.

Ken
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I second that!!👍
 
DustinsDad said:
It’s not TLM only (yet anyway) - but how far are you from the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament?

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad
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Almost two hours. While I know many people drive this far every Sunday, I just cannot afford the gas to make the trip every week, being a poor college-student with a large truck. I plan on trying to make the trip maybe once a month, but every week would kill my bank account. I know it will probably be a long while until there is something in Tuscaloosa (only two parishes here, both definitely opposed to the TLM), but I’m hoping there will be something soon on the west side of Birmingham, which would only be about a 45 minute drive for me. There is only one other TLM in my diocese besides at the Shrine. There is one at St. Charles Borromeo in Jacksonville, AL, which is even further at about 2 and a half hours one-way.
 
SemperFidelis said:
Almost two hours. While I know many people drive this far every Sunday, I just cannot afford the gas to make the trip every week, being a poor college-student with a large truck. I plan on trying to make the trip maybe once a month, but every week would kill my bank account. I know it will probably be a long while until there is something in Tuscaloosa (only two parishes here, both definitely opposed to the TLM), but I’m hoping there will be something soon on the west side of Birmingham, which would only be about a 45 minute drive for me. There is only one other TLM in my diocese besides at the Shrine. There is one at St. Charles Borromeo in Jacksonville, AL, which is even further at about 2 and a half hours one-way.
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I see. I was going to suggest maybe a once a month “road trip”. My prayers are with you my friend!

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad
 
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