Multiple Miscarriages... multiple dilemmas

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Sergio

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I found these boards just recently and have been often reading however have not decided to take active part until now.

My wife and I have been struggling for the past 3 and a half years with recurrent miscarriages. She suffered her first loss in August 2002 (12 weeks pregnant), then a second loss in March 2003 (9 weeks) and our last unfortunate event took place in December 2004 (7 weeks). She was forced to undergo D&C in all occasions, you must add physical pain and slow recovery to sadness.

I could not possibly tell which came most as a surprise to us. They came totally unexpectedly. At first we thought, well these things happen and we will get over it, let it be a soon second try. And then it happens again. We then decided to visit some of the best specialist in the world in the infertility area, IVI clinic in Valencia, ivi.es/eng/ivi/index.htm and we were under observation and tests for over a year with no apparent signs of any cause which would determine our failures.

The possibility of never carrying a baby to term was something we never thought we would face. But here we are, trying to decide which way to go.

“Time heals” some say, and that is probably right, as my wife and I have slowly overcome the situation and accepted the situation we are in. Sad days of mourning, grief and broken dreams are now well-kept in a closet we do not wish to open.

But now, as Christians, we are overwhelmed.

Gynecologists advise us of contraception. Almost mandatory, as it is more than likely there would be a fourth loss should she got pregnant again. So that is moral dillema #1.

Due to our feedback, test results and age, there is no light for us other than a fertility treatment called PGD (Pre-Implantation Genetic Diagnosis). PGD incurs in 3-day-old embryo analyzing and testing to find out if they are chromosomally normal or abnormal. That is moral dillema #2, obviously harder to handle, but only way to have a child of our own.

No other options other than adopting a baby (which we would consider) or remain childless (which we will not consider).

I have done some research and found this: *At this early stage of development (before 14 days) the embryo does not have human form or genetic uniqueness. It is a growing collection of cells which can divide into two and naturally produce identical twins. It is unable to survive outside of the womb, does not have any organ structures including even a primitive brain and it has no degree cognitive development. *I think the same way.

Going for a fourth “natural” attempt will surely end in a human fetus being murdered again, and more grief and sorrow for my wife, my parents, my friends, and myself, so they are ETHYCALLY EQUIVALENT ACTIONS, saving that those 3-day embryos which will be discarded will not suffer, nor my wife, adding that PGD will dramatically reduce the risk of miscarriage.

What is moral and what is immoral? How can we dare to say. Can God’s will be manifested through these new advanced resources? Can the Lord be upset with me for trying to bring and raise a Christian family? I read the Bible daily and have faith in Him, and will accept whatever He has planned for me.

Thank you all for reading my message, your opinions are welcome.
 
First of all, let me offer my sincerest condolances for the loss of your children. I am sincerely sorry and I will pray for you.

My first suggestion is to try to work with a physician from the Pope Paul VI institute. The will do nothing morrally wrong, they are NFP only. They can do a lot of testing to see if you have any hormone imbalance, look at surgical possibilities to correct any problems.

They will NOT do anything immoral, which would include aborting children. Age of the child is not really a factor. Once you have a fertilized egg, you have the complete package, and it is immoral to intentionally kill the child.

You do not have to contracept, you can do NFP. Either the Creighton method or Sympto-thermal will work. But the creighton method is what the Pope Paul VI institute uses to help them with tests.

In the end, it is possible that you can not carry your own child to term. There is still the possibility of adoption and no matter what scientific advances come along that could be your best hope.

My wife and I have struggled with this for several years also and we are working with a doctor from the Pope Paul VI institute. We haven’t gotten far with him yet, but we are hopefull.

As far as what is moral and immoral, Catholics use the church. The church has said you can not kill innocent babies, and life is protected from conception to grave. Thus the killing of even an embryo of 3 days is immoral. Please note that even if they do this test (PGD), you are not guarenteed to find an answer.

You are not in an easy spot, and I am very sorry for your pain.
 
Thank you for your quick reply John. I appreciate what you say, and that is what I intended to do from the beginning, you are completely right. However, the closest good centre I could go to was IVI. I live in Spain. We went through all the imaginable blood, cell, cariotype, temperature, sperm, gen mutation tests, in-depth analysis of lost embryos, we have spent over 3000€ only in tests.

With regards to the issue of killing innocent “babies”, same consideration applies if we challenge doctors and retry for a fourth time. Three ended up dead and that is exactly what we are trying to avoid this time. Save and bring a baby blessed with the breath of life by our Lord Jesuschrist.

Greetings from Spain

Sergio
 
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Sergio:
Thank you for your quick reply John. I appreciate what you say, and that is what I intended to do from the beginning, you are completely right. However, the closest good centre I could go to was IVI. I live in Spain. We went through all the imaginable blood, cell, cariotype, temperature, sperm, gen mutation tests, in-depth analysis of lost embryos, we have spent over 3000€ only in tests.

With regards to the issue of killing innocent “babies”, same consideration applies if we challenge doctors and retry for a fourth time. Three ended up dead and that is exactly what we are trying to avoid this time. Save and bring a baby blessed with the breath of life by our Lord Jesuschrist.

Greetings from Spain

Sergio
I didn’t notice that you were from Spain at first, so my appologies. PPVI is a little out of your way. Just a question, did they scope into the uterus area? Look for endometriosis? They probably did, but I thought I’d ask. Also, what about hormone testing? I’m not a doctor, so my knowledge is limited. You probably went through this…

I’m not sure about what to do. I realize that continuous miscarriages would be bad. But contraception shouldn’t be the answer. If you decide to not have a child in order to not miscarriage then NFP really is the way to go.

I assume you’ve prayed about this. Have you asked God what He wants you to do and really just tried to listen. I am in a group that is trying to work on this now. It is easy to ask God many questions and not just try to listen for an answer. I have been doing this for many many years and I’m trying to get over it. Go into prayer, ask God what his will is and expect him to answer. He will, although there are no guarentees it will be the answer you want or expect…

I will pray for you.
 
Going for a fourth “natural” attempt will surely end in a human fetus being murdered again, and more grief and sorrow for my wife, my parents, my friends, and myself, so they are ETHYCALLY EQUIVALENT ACTIONS, saving that those 3-day embryos which will be discarded will not suffer, nor my wife, adding that PGD will dramatically reduce the risk of miscarriage.
I want to let you know how sincerely sorry I am about your and your wife’s difficulties. I don’t really have much advice beyond what yochumjy said, but I do want to point out that having a miscarriage is not murdering a human being. Conceiving a child knowing that miscarriage is likely is not the same as actively ending or attempting to end that child’s life. Having a miscarriage and discarding embryos are not ethically equivalent actions, because in one case, the death is not intended and would have been prevented if it were possible, and in the other, the death is caused by someone else’s direct action. I hope this knowledge helps you as you try to decide what course of action to pursue.
 
John, thank you again for your time and your prayers. Be sure I will be asking God for His answer and will obbey whatever it is.
Grace and Glory:
I want to let you know how sincerely sorry I am about your and your wife’s difficulties. I don’t really have much advice beyond what yochumjy said, but I do want to point out that having a miscarriage is not murdering a human being. Conceiving a child knowing that miscarriage is likely is not the same as actively ending or attempting to end that child’s life. Having a miscarriage and discarding embryos are not ethically equivalent actions, because in one case, the death is not intended and would have been prevented if it were possible, and in the other, the death is caused by someone else’s direct action. I hope this knowledge helps you as you try to decide what course of action to pursue.
I would just like to clarify that those discarded would be embryos chromosomicaly abnormal, in other words, non-viable and likely to stop during pregnancy just like our past three missed attempts. In the event that there were extra viable embryos, which we do not know at this point, maybe there is not even a viable one, these are frozen for further transferrals.

Thank you again for all your points of view. They are all taken in account.
 
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Sergio:
John, thank you again for your time and your prayers. Be sure I will be asking God for His answer and will obbey whatever it is.

I would just like to clarify that those discarded would be embryos chromosomicaly abnormal, in other words, non-viable and likely to stop during pregnancy just like our past three missed attempts. In the event that there were extra viable embryos, which we do not know at this point, maybe there is not even a viable one, these are frozen for further transferrals.

Thank you again for all your points of view. They are all taken in account.
Sergio, the Church clearly defines that life begins at conception. Therefore, to create an embryo through IVF and then test it before implantation violates church teaching and is never acceptable.

I suggest you contact the Pope Paul VI institute by email, even though you are in Spane. www.popepaulvi.com. They may be able to help, even long distance.
 
My sympathy on your situation. A relative of mine has experienced similar problems, sadly.

Just this one note of concern to keep in mind: there is a difference between treating disease and addressing desire.
 
My husband and I also suffered through three miscarriages. We were also at the point where the only medical options available to us were immoral – in vitro fertilization, etc, not to mention extrememly expensive.

We reached the point where we just wanted to be parents, so decided to pursue adoption. We were fortunate to have adopted both of our children as one-day old babies, although we were open to older children throughout the process as well.

I know your pain and I am so sorry for all you are going through. Just know that adoption is a very wonderful way to become parents, because a child is brought to term that might otherwise have been aborted because of the option for adoption.

Keep praying and trusting in the Lord. Seek always the moral option, no matter how painful it might feel at this time. Better to choose the right path than look back someday regretting what you have done.

You and your wife are in my prayers.

Didi
 
I can’t even imagine the pain you and your wife are going through. I think adoption would be a great route for you to take. It is in no way the same as carrying your own child, but think of the life you could give a child without parents. God works in mysterious ways and he has a plan for you and your wife. I am glad that you have been able to keep your faith during this trying time. I will pray for you.
God Bless
 
Nice encouraging message marinebiogurl04. Thank you for dropping your note. Much appreciated.
 
I would like to extend my deepest sympathy and my prayers. I know how upsetting it can be to have miscarriages. What I was wondering about is this: Has anyone examined the babies you lost to see if they were genetically okay? Has any doctor discovered a reason that your wife miscarries? If the babies were lost because of a genetic defect, it is possible that you could try again and the baby would be healthy next time. I have read in books that women who have repeated miscarriage can sometimes go on to have a successful birth, and no one knows the reason. Another thing is that some babies are lost because of the lack of the hormone progesterone. I know of a woman who had two children many years apart with perhaps a dozen miscarriages in between. I don’t see anything wrong with continuing to try, even if more babies are lost. After all, you want them, and it is not your fault that they do not survive.
 
You do present an interesting dilemna. Although it has not quite reached a crisis situation yet, to my mind, to repeatedly conceive babies who die before having had a chance at life, encourages an attitude that does not respect life. If I were in your situation I would begin considering this to be a “compelling reason” to look at the possibility of contraception and adoption.

My prayers that your next try will be successful.
 
My heart goes out to you, Sergio. When I was 26 I had a beautiful baby girl. I then had three miscarriages in a row. I was devastated. I prayed for a healthy baby. It made no sense to me as even prostitutes, drug addicts, and the like were having babies. Why not me? Then I did get pregnant and held my breath and prayed every day until after the third month when the doctor said I could feel safe that this one was ok. I thanked God daily that I now carried a “normal” infant. Unfortunately, that baby, a little boy, was born full-term but had a deformed heart and only lived for nine hours. I felt as if God had reached down and slapped my face. I decided I would be hurt no more–I would never get pregnant again. Well, tell God your plans and hear Him laugh, because I did get pregnant again and went on to have three more healthy, normal children.

The point of my story is don’t give up hope. In the meantime, I will share with you my favorite verse for when it seems everything has gone wrong and you are feeling in deep despair:

“Though the fig tree should not blossom and there be no fruit on the vines, though the yield of the olive should fail and the fields produce no food, though the flock should be cut off from the fold, and there be no cattle in the stalls, YET I will EXULT IN THE LORD. I will REJOICE in the God of my salvation. The Lord God is my strength, and he has made my feet like hinds’ feet and makes me walk on my high places.” Habakuk 3:17-19

May our God grant you wisdom and peace as you make these hard decisions. “But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy, and the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.” James 3:17,18

“Thanks to God for my Redeemer”

Marquette
 
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Sergio:
I have done some research and found this: At this early stage of development (before 14 days) the embryo does not have human form or genetic uniqueness. It is a growing collection of cells which can divide into two and naturally produce identical twins. It is unable to survive outside of the womb, does not have any organ structures including even a primitive brain and it has no degree cognitive development. I think the same way.
Sergio,

My heart hurts for you and your wife. I have not experienced what you have, but can only imagine the pain and longing you feel.

Have you sought the intercession of Our Lady of Guadalupe? She is the Patroness of the Unborn. We know what a powerful Mother we have! If you are familiar with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, you will know that she happens to be pregnant in that image. Something beautiful to consider when looking at it.

I wish to gently but firmly correct the sentences I quoted from your original post.

At the moment of conception–at the instant that the sperm and egg unite–a new being has come into existence. Whether that being continues on to implant in the uterus, to develop and to be born, or whether that being should die in utero, there has never been and will never be another one like him or her. He or she has touched eternity.

I do not know the source of this quote you shared, however, as Catholics, we believe that that tiny embryo is the earliest human form. Just think: at one point in history, on this very earth, Jesus was an embryo, just minutes old!

I would echo what many others have alreadly suggested, and stongly urge you to contact the Pope Paul VI Institute.

Que Dios les bendiga.
 
Thank you all for your posts and bible passages quoted, they are very welcomed.

It is giving me a lot to think and pray about.
 
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