Multiple Universes with Multiple Gods?

[MysticMissMisty]

Salvete, omnes!

(First, feel free to move this post if it has not been placed in the proper forum.)

What I am about to say below is indeed highly speculative, so, please bear that in mind as you read/respond. What I am about to say below may also seem very controversial, but, let it be known that it is not my intention maliciously to stir up controversy. I am merely asking questions and considering implications.

We are told repeatedly in Sacred Scripture and elsewhere that there is only One God, not multiple ones.

However…

The inspired writers who penned these assertions likely had no concept of the possibility other universes outside of the one they saw. In their minds, they surely understood there only to be One God, end of story, period. To them, this God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

But…

What if we propose the existence of many universes (not parallel/mirror/etc., but, actual, separate, independent universes with separate, independent destinies) and what ifthese many universes are all governed, like our own, by separate entities which are all-knowing with respect to their own universes? These entities might have “personalities” entirely different from the God we know, perhaps even some that we cannot even conceive, ahving only been made in our God’s image and, thus, only with His attributes.

Again, our biblical writers were surely, in their minds, speaking of One God Alone, end of story, but would that necessarily preclude the existence of such a scenario as I posited above? Just because an idea did not come into the mind of a writer (by necessity due to the notions of his time), does it necessarily mean that the idea, at least insofar as inspired Scripture, does not have any reality? I suppose a relevant question here would also be: In Catholic theology, how closely-related are to a text’s divine inspiration are the thoughts of the narrator (or lack thereof)?

I guess my main question is: Does the fact that the biblical writers stated that there was only One God, even though they likely had no concept of the possibility of more than one universe, necessarily preclude any possibility of more than one God (of more than one universe?) because the inspired authors did not conceive of such an idea as they were writing?

Even any other potential infallible writers/councils/etc. writing on these themes would, up until recently, have had no concept of the potential for multiple universes outside of this one. What are we to say on this subject of their writings?

Also, what theological implications would arise if we posited the multiverse I’ve just posited? Would any infallible Church teaching on the existence/nature of the One God be impacted? Is there indeed any infallible Church teaching which would absolutely and necessarily preclude the possibility I have suggested here?

Again, this is highly speculative as there is obviously no definite proof of independent universes outside of our own, but it does touch on some important matters of inspiration and its impact on Church teaching.

 

[Tomdstone]

Salvete, omnes!

(First, feel free to move this post if it has not been placed in the proper forum.)

What I am about to say below is indeed highly speculative, so, please bear that in mind as you read/respond. What I am about to say below may also seem very controversial, but, let it be known that it is not my intention maliciously to stir up controversy. I am merely asking questions and considering implications.

We are told repeatedly in Sacred Scripture and elsewhere that there is only One God, not multiple ones.

However…

The inspired writers who penned these assertions likely had no concept of the possibility other universes outside of the one they saw. In their minds, they surely understood there only to be One God, end of story, period. To them, this God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

But…

What if we propose the existence of many universes (not parallel/mirror/etc., but, actual, separate, independent universes with separate, independent destinies) and what ifthese many universes are all governed, like our own, by separate entities which are all-knowing with respect to their own universes? These entities might have “personalities” entirely different from the God we know, perhaps even some that we cannot even conceive, ahving only been made in our God’s image and, thus, only with His attributes.

Again, our biblical writers were surely, in their minds, speaking of One God Alone, end of story, but would that necessarily preclude the existence of such a scenario as I posited above? Just because an idea did not come into the mind of a writer (by necessity due to the notions of his time), does it necessarily mean that the idea, at least insofar as inspired Scripture, does not have any reality? I suppose a relevant question here would also be: In Catholic theology, how closely-related are to a text’s divine inspiration are the thoughts of the narrator (or lack thereof)?

I guess my main question is: Does the fact that the biblical writers stated that there was only One God, even though they likely had no concept of the possibility of more than one universe, necessarily preclude any possibility of more than one God (of more than one universe?) because the inspired authors did not conceive of such an idea as they were writing?

Even any other potential infallible writers/councils/etc. writing on these themes would, up until recently, have had no concept of the potential for multiple universes outside of this one. What are we to say on this subject of their writings?

Also, what theological implications would arise if we posited the multiverse I’ve just posited? Would any infallible Church teaching on the existence/nature of the One God be impacted? Is there indeed any infallible Church teaching which would absolutely and necessarily preclude the possibility I have suggested here?

Again, this is highly speculative as there is obviously no definite proof of independent universes outside of our own, but it does touch on some important matters of inspiration and its impact on Church teaching.

At the time of Cicero, there was a belief that there were several gods. In fact, Cicero has written an interesting book entitled: “The Nature of the Gods”. My view is that even if there are multiple universes and multiple religions, there is only one God.

 

[Faith1960]

At the time of Cicero, there was a belief that there were several gods. In fact, Cicero has written an interesting book entitled: “The Nature of the Gods”. My view is that even if there are multiple universes and multiple religions, there is only one God.

I agree.

 

[meltzerboy]

Salvete, omnes!

(First, feel free to move this post if it has not been placed in the proper forum.)

What I am about to say below is indeed highly speculative, so, please bear that in mind as you read/respond. What I am about to say below may also seem very controversial, but, let it be known that it is not my intention maliciously to stir up controversy. I am merely asking questions and considering implications.

We are told repeatedly in Sacred Scripture and elsewhere that there is only One God, not multiple ones.

However…

The inspired writers who penned these assertions likely had no concept of the possibility other universes outside of the one they saw. In their minds, they surely understood there only to be One God, end of story, period. To them, this God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

But…

What if we propose the existence of many universes (not parallel/mirror/etc., but, actual, separate, independent universes with separate, independent destinies) and what ifthese many universes are all governed, like our own, by separate entities which are all-knowing with respect to their own universes? These entities might have “personalities” entirely different from the God we know, perhaps even some that we cannot even conceive, ahving only been made in our God’s image and, thus, only with His attributes.

Again, our biblical writers were surely, in their minds, speaking of One God Alone, end of story, but would that necessarily preclude the existence of such a scenario as I posited above? Just because an idea did not come into the mind of a writer (by necessity due to the notions of his time), does it necessarily mean that the idea, at least insofar as inspired Scripture, does not have any reality? I suppose a relevant question here would also be: In Catholic theology, how closely-related are to a text’s divine inspiration are the thoughts of the narrator (or lack thereof)?

I guess my main question is: Does the fact that the biblical writers stated that there was only One God, even though they likely had no concept of the possibility of more than one universe, necessarily preclude any possibility of more than one God (of more than one universe?) because the inspired authors did not conceive of such an idea as they were writing?

Even any other potential infallible writers/councils/etc. writing on these themes would, up until recently, have had no concept of the potential for multiple universes outside of this one. What are we to say on this subject of their writings?

Also, what theological implications would arise if we posited the multiverse I’ve just posited? Would any infallible Church teaching on the existence/nature of the One God be impacted? Is there indeed any infallible Church teaching which would absolutely and necessarily preclude the possibility I have suggested here?

Again, this is highly speculative as there is obviously no definite proof of independent universes outside of our own, but it does touch on some important matters of inspiration and its impact on Church teaching.

I don’t believe such thinking has to be confined to different universes. It may well be that in different galaxies, solar systems, or planets within our own universe, there are different religious beliefs and different gods.

 

[Robyn_p]

What you are saying sounds a lot like Mormonism. In Mormonism, there is no First Mover. They believe that matter has always existed and there is an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of gods running each universe, each one with a god above him and so on and so forth.

Personally, I’m not quite seeing how multiple universes would therefore lead to multiple gods. If God really is what we believe He is: the First Mover, the Uncaused Cause, the Necessary Being etc…, then it really doesn’t matter how many universes there are out there. They would all have been created and all would have to be sustained by this same Being. There’s no other option.

This is something that can be discerned through reason alone, but Biblical revelation just confirms it for us. Adding more universes wouldn’t change anything, anymore than adding more bacteria or atoms would.

That’s the way I look at it anyway.

 

[Nigel7]

The Lord our God made them all.
All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

 

[Tomdstone]

I don’t believe such thinking has to be confined to different universes. It may well be that in different galaxies, solar systems, or planets within our own universe, there are different religious beliefs and different gods.

I don’t see why different religious beliefs would necessarily entail the existence of different gods?

 

[Nigel7]

I don’t see why different religious beliefs would necessarily entail the existence of different gods?

Pagan aliens. I imagine aliens living on other worlds might worship a variety of deities too, much as people on our world do. Though that would imply then possibly that their world was fallen too much like ours since worship of false gods is sinful. They therefor also effected by Lucifer’s rebellion, the effects of sin, the fall of all creation, including a so-called multiverse since that is part of Gods creation too.

 

[Reepicheep]

What we have here is speculative fiction. There’s nothing to support it.

 

[hicetnunc]

What if we propose the existence of many universes (not parallel/mirror/etc., but, actual, separate, independent universes with separate, independent destinies) and what ifthese many universes are all governed, like our own, by separate entities which are all-knowing with respect to their own universes? These entities might have “personalities” entirely different from the God we know, perhaps even some that we cannot even conceive, ahving only been made in our God’s image and, thus, only with His attributes.

Salve, Misty…

It’s an interesting question, but I think St Thomas in his Summa Contra Gentiles explains very well from a philosophical point of view why there cannot be multiple First Causes, or multiple gods answering to the same description of the One, Infinite God, or with the same attributes.

His reasoning goes like this: Imagine, for the sake of argument, that there are two causes presumed to be equally First Causes in their own right; let’s call these two “First Causes” X and Y.

Now either X and Y both have identical properties in every respect, or they do not. If they do, then they are simply two different names for the same thing, given the law of noncontradiction (two things with identical properties in every respect are not two things, but one).

On the other hand, if X has properties that Y does not have, then either: (1) X is contingent and Y is not (or vice versa); or (2) neither X or Y are necessary beings, and therefore we must look for a third, Necessary, uncaused causer.

If (1), that X and/or Y have properties that the other does not possess, then these properties are either (a) contingent, or (b) necessary. If X for example possess (a) properties that are contingent, then it cannot answer to the name of Necessary, uncaused causer, as we would have to look for a cause for those contingent properties outside of X. If (b), X contains necessary qualities, and Y does not, then only X answers to the name Necessary, First Cause, and in that case Y would not.

So the bottom line is that there can not be more than One, Necessary, Uncaused Causer…and this we call God.

 

[Dorothy]

What you are saying sounds a lot like Mormonism. In Mormonism, there is no First Mover. They believe that matter has always existed and there is an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of gods running each universe, each one with a god above him and so on and so forth.

Personally, I’m not quite seeing how multiple universes would therefore lead to multiple gods. If God really is what we believe He is: the First Mover, the Uncaused Cause, the Necessary Being etc…, then it really doesn’t matter how many universes there are out there. They would all have been created and all would have to be sustained by this same Being. There’s no other option.

This is something that can be discerned through reason alone, but Biblical revelation just confirms it for us. Adding more universes wouldn’t change anything, anymore than adding more bacteria or atoms would.

That’s the way I look at it anyway.

I like the way you look at it.

 

[tonyrey]

Occam’s Razor cuts out all the nonsense at one fell swoop!

pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate (plurality should not be posited without necessity)” =

Entities are not to be multiplied beyond necessity

 

[meltzerboy]

I don’t see why different religious beliefs would necessarily entail the existence of different gods?

Intelligent life forms from different planets, solar systems, galaxies, or universes might essentially be worshiping the same G-d according to their own religion. However, it is obvious (to me) that G-d’s Law (Torah) cannot have been given to each and every alien civilization, at least not by Moses, neither can Jesus have lived, died and been resurrected in the presence of each and every civilization, nor can Muhammad have appeared to all of them, nor Krishna, Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva, nor the Buddha, the Bab, and so on. I think each of these civilizations would have their own religious history or version of G-d. That in itself, in my view, would lend support for G-d’s existence, no matter what His manifestation.

 

[Ricky_C]

It’s an interesting theory, and I’m not sure about the implications, but I’m pretty sure it can’t happen.

Consider that our universe is contained within a certain space. God is not contained within our universe; He is outside of our physical universe, and is above it. If there’s another universe out there, then God’s still there. That theory only makes sense if God is contained within a universe, but we believe He is above ours; therefore, He is above any universes that exist. We know that God is above all, to think there are universes outside of God’s would be to say there is something above God.

However, I don’t think the idea of a multiverse ruled by God is completely implausible. Each universe would be contained in its own space, and God would be above all of those universes.
I think there’s a bit of difficulty with the theory in that God gave his Only Begotten Son for the sins of all people; this would have to occur in every universe, but God would have to manifest Himself as human in every universe to do that, and the implications of that are confusing. It’s possible that the theory makes more sense somehow, but regardless, it may not be our place to question universes that might not even exist. Our own universe is enough to worry about.

 

[Dorothy]

This extraordinary poem by Alice Meynell is appropo for subject of this thread:

Christ in the Universe, by Alice Meynell:

poetry-archive.com/m/christ_in_the_universe.html

 

[Dorothy]

Also, C. S. Lewis wrote a space-science trilogy, and the second book is called “Perelandra”.

Perelandra was an “unfallen” planet, and Earth was called the “bent” planet.

I read it so long ago that I do not remember small details about it.

Book #1 is: “Out of the Silent Planet” (someone takes off in a rocket ship)

Book #3 is: “That Hideous Strength” (evil)

 

[lmelahn]

Salvete, omnes!

(First, feel free to move this post if it has not been placed in the proper forum.)

What I am about to say below is indeed highly speculative, so, please bear that in mind as you read/respond. What I am about to say below may also seem very controversial, but, let it be known that it is not my intention maliciously to stir up controversy. I am merely asking questions and considering implications.

We are told repeatedly in Sacred Scripture and elsewhere that there is only One God, not multiple ones.

However…

The inspired writers who penned these assertions likely had no concept of the possibility other universes outside of the one they saw. In their minds, they surely understood there only to be One God, end of story, period. To them, this God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

But…

What if we propose the existence of many universes (not parallel/mirror/etc., but, actual, separate, independent universes with separate, independent destinies) and what ifthese many universes are all governed, like our own, by separate entities which are all-knowing with respect to their own universes? These entities might have “personalities” entirely different from the God we know, perhaps even some that we cannot even conceive, ahving only been made in our God’s image and, thus, only with His attributes.

Again, our biblical writers were surely, in their minds, speaking of One God Alone, end of story, but would that necessarily preclude the existence of such a scenario as I posited above? Just because an idea did not come into the mind of a writer (by necessity due to the notions of his time), does it necessarily mean that the idea, at least insofar as inspired Scripture, does not have any reality? I suppose a relevant question here would also be: In Catholic theology, how closely-related are to a text’s divine inspiration are the thoughts of the narrator (or lack thereof)?

I guess my main question is: Does the fact that the biblical writers stated that there was only One God, even though they likely had no concept of the possibility of more than one universe, necessarily preclude any possibility of more than one God (of more than one universe?) because the inspired authors did not conceive of such an idea as they were writing?

Even any other potential infallible writers/councils/etc. writing on these themes would, up until recently, have had no concept of the potential for multiple universes outside of this one. What are we to say on this subject of their writings?

Also, what theological implications would arise if we posited the multiverse I’ve just posited? Would any infallible Church teaching on the existence/nature of the One God be impacted? Is there indeed any infallible Church teaching which would absolutely and necessarily preclude the possibility I have suggested here?

Again, this is highly speculative as there is obviously no definite proof of independent universes outside of our own, but it does touch on some important matters of inspiration and its impact on Church teaching.

Even if there were many universes, there can only be one Creator. He would just be the creator of all of them.

 

[Bahman]

What we have here is speculative fiction. There’s nothing to support it.

How you could provide an evidence that your belief is not a fiction?

 

[Bahman]

Even if there were many universes, there can only be one Creator. He would just be the creator of all of them.

No if they are causally independent.

 

[hicetnunc]

No if they are causally independent.

Two First Causes could not be causally dependent, as this would be a contradiction in terms.