Music of the Byzantine Rite-- not necesssarily Byzantine

[5Loaves]

Endeavoring to start a new thread on the topic of music begun elsewhere. I’m just grabbing this post as a good enough starting place.

Originally Posted by 5Loaves

Originally Posted by Cavaradossi

Greek chant is actually metered in general. The texts are all metered, and the neumes have a base time value, which can be altered to make half value, third value, quarter value, double value, triple value, and quadruple value notes.
The use of the word “Byzantine” becomes so confusing. Not all Churches of the Byzantine liturgical Rite use Byzantine music. Byzantine chant (I will quickly get in over my head here) is quite different from music used in the Byzantine Church in America, and from that in my Russian Church which uses Slavic music.

The use of the word “Byzantine” becomes so confusing. Not all Churches of the Byzantine liturgical Rite use Byzantine music. Byzantine chant (I will quickly get in over my head here) is quite different from music used in the Byzantine Church in America, and from that in my Russian Church which uses Slavic music.

Byzantine Chant is what one would hear for example in a Greek Orthodox Church. I am only present in the Greek Orthodox Churches other than Sundays, so not having the usual American Greek organ music. The music I hear in weekday services is a single cantor with a second man providing the ison drone. There is no harmony, unless you would call the ison a kind of harmony. This Byzantine Chant is what is sung at our local Orthodox Christian Fellowship Divine Liturgy and I must say there it is rather a mess, tho we sing with great heart. The style of the chant does not lend itself to a group of singers chanting it together. When the Metropolitan isn’t there to hold things together with his strong voice the timing becomes really bad. Luckily he is very often there.

Originally Posted by 5Loaves
edit:
I see later you address this

Originally Posted by Cavaradossi

Your parish must not use Byzantine Chant. Somewhat counter-intuitively, the Eastern Catholic Church in America commonly known as the Byzantine Catholic Church (that would be the Ruthenian Catholic Church), doesn’t use Byzantine Chant, which is a chanting tradition foreign to the peoples descended from the Rus’.

Related to OP’s # 5.) including his “what this stuff is really supposed to sound like” question.

 

[TrueLight]

Anyone have YouTube videos of what Byzantine chant “is supposed to sound like” versus what is used in most Byzantine parishes?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Anyone have YouTube videos of what Byzantine chant “is supposed to sound like” versus what is used in most Byzantine parishes?

There are plenty, and they are all representative of what it “is supposed to sound like”, but you have to understand that the chant tradition varies throughout the Churches of the Byzantine Rite. While we share a common Rite, this becomes one of the distinguishing characteristics - the “style” of chant.

When Christianity was brought to the Slavic lands, in particular, Greek Chant (of more pure Constantinopolitan origin) was slowly adapted and began to take on the cultural character of the peoples who had been converted. This lead to development of families and branches of chant that are in existence today. While some show great similarity, the distinctions start to blur as one travels from, say, Moscow, back to “Constantinople” (Greece). So “High Russian” forms seem to sound rather different that Greek forms, at least on the surface.

The confusion, as always, stems from terminology. When one says “Byzantine Chant”, today that normally means chant of the Greek Orthodox Church. This is how it is typically labelled in public domain, including on YouTube. Here’s an example:

Byzantine Chant - Praise the Lord from the Heavens (Communion Hymn from the Psalms)

Now, here’s an example of the same Psalm verses, set to Russian Orthodox chant:

Russian Chant - Praise the Lord from the Heavens

If you listen carefully, you will hear the use of ison, or drone / monotone foundation, in both, although it is characteristically more prominent in “Byzantine [Greek] Chant”.

Hope that helps!

 

[kalinin65]

There are some who support the usage of an organ because it makes the praying and divine service less boring. If for these people praying is boring, than they might consider not praying at all. One may recommend them to go see a musical play, a movie, or just go fishing. A prayer is a dialogue with God, asking him for forgiveness and salvation… A person might just imagine this situation: “You come to your mother or father to ask them for forgiveness for something”. Does one need a guitar or an accordion in hand to do that? Why? If in one’s request for forgiveness (a prayer) there is not enough sincerity, will the musical accompaniment will be able to compensate that? No, it will probably mask that insincerity, but not form the one to whom one is praying. What about us why should we cheat ourselves?
In the Orthodoxy a human being is looked at as the most perfect instrument ,that must be tempered. For that, just like a guitar or any other instrument there needs to be a long and strenuous practice. That practice does not require one’s personal will but a will of God. This practice requires humility, forgiveness, not being hypocoristic but to honestly look at oneself as the first of the sinners. Just like our faithful grandmothers taught us: Praying, fasting, and suffering. Then there will be no desire “to better” the divine service that was commanded to us by the holy fathers, the best of the representative of the church, which was founded by our God Lord Jesus Christ himself.
To determine why Catholics and Protestants use musical instruments in the churches, that should be discussed separately. In the end, if they have established such tradition for centuries, let them keep it, since the purity of the church they chose not to keep. Looking back at the history of our Orthodox church it is difficult to imagine that during the divine service there will be playing of an organ, a guitar, or a violin orchestra. That the Holy Communion will be accommodated by Rock music, like it is done in certain Protestant sects. Orthodox chants reflect the Orthodox life, a godlike life, a life with God. Orthodox chants help us to undergo that or the other event of the earthly life of Jesus Christ. Those are the gloomy chants of the holy week and those of full joy like the Paschal chants. Orthodoxy is not just emotional, it is first of all spirituality, that unity with the holy spirit. The real Orthodox chants like the Byzantine or Old Slavonic famous chants and others ideally represent the essence of Orthodoxy; mainly unity, secondly freedom in all and love. Early fathers saw instrumental music to lead to dancing and other passions that destroy the humility of the Christian life.
St. Basil the Great says: “Of the necessary to life which furnish a concrete result there is carpentry, which produces the chair; architecture, the house; shipbuilding; the ship, tailoring, the garment, forging, the blades. Of useless arts there is harp playing, dancing, flute playing of which, when the operation cease, the result disappears with it. And indeed, according to the word of the apostle, the result of these is destruction.”
John Chrysostom says: “Marriage is accounted and honorable thing both by us and by those without ; and it is honorable. But when marriages are solemnized such a number of ridiculous circumstances take place as ye shall hear of immediately; because the most part, possessed and beguiled by custom, are not even aware of their absurdity, but need others to teach them. For dancing, and cymbals, and flutes, and shameful words and songs, and drunkenness, and revellings, and all the Devil’s great help of garbage is then introduced.”
“David formerly sang songs, also today we sing hymns. He had a lyre with lifeless strings the church has a lyre with living strings. Our tongues are the strings of the lyre with a different tone indeed but more in accordance with piety. Here there is no need for the cithara, or for stretched strings, or for the plectrum, or for art, or for yourself become a cithara, mortifying the members of the flesh and a full harmony of mind and body. For when the flesh is no longer lust against the spirit, but has submitted to its orders and has been led at length into the best and most admirable paths, than will you create a spiritual melody.” John Chrysostom exposition of psalms 41, (381-398A.D.)
Clement of Alexandria says: “Leave the pipe to the shepherd the flute to the men who are in fear of goods and are intent on their idol-worshiping. Such musical instrument must be excluded form our wineless feasts, for they are more suited for beast and for the class of men that is least capable of reason than for men…In general, we must completely eliminate every such base sight or sound-in a word, everything immodest that strikes, the senses (for this is an abuse of the senses)-if we would avoid pleasures that merely fascinate the eye or ear, and emasculate.”

 

[kalinin65]

Both Origen and Eusebius explain he Psalm 33:2, “Give thanks to the Lord on the harp; with the ten stringed psaltery chant His praises” as the harp meaning the soul, and the ten-stringed psaltery being a body with 5 senses and 5 faculties.
Eusebius (as historical witness): “Of old at eh time those of the circumcision were worshiping with symbols and types it was not inappropriate to send up hymns to God with the psalterion and cithara and to do this on Sabbath days… We render our hymn with a living psalterion and a living cithara with spiritual songs. The unison voices of Christians would be more acceptable to God than any musical instrument. Accordingly in all the churches of God, united in soul and attitude, with one mind and in agreement of faith and piety we send up a unison melody in the words of the Psalms.” (Commentary on Psalms 91)
All of the beauty of our church services is concluded in texts of the holy chants. The text, is only capable of becoming possession of the praying when it is clearly pronounced by the human voice. Sounds of an organ undoubtedly darken and hide from the praying all the beauty and loftiness incorporated by the song-creating thoughts. From this point of view, besides harm an organ is incapable of bringing anything else into an Orthodox church services. Instead of introducing an organ into an Orthodox church to falsely improve the singing, we should put all of our efforts in to raising singing in the church that is common to the whole people. Only this path will bring our people to conscious participation in the church service, development of our choir. For two thousand years the Orthodox church has functioned without an organ and to bring in such an instrument into the church divides people. Psychology of the Orthodox people is unable to deal with such a shock. The motives of these heretic renovations are unclear. Have we not learned our history, that any apostasy does not lead to anything good and positive. Human singing involves a soul, which brings depth and mobility to the Orthodox chants thus making choir a higher form of art.

 

[chaldobyzantine]

This has been discussed before. I do not know what kalinin65 is posting about, but to the OP it should be clarified that there isn’t one Byzantine type of chant or a type of chant specifically labelled “Byzantine.”

To my memory, there is: Greek-type chant, used by the Eastern Orthodox Churches of Constantinople, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Antioch, Cyprus, Albania, Romania and their Catholic counterparts. Byzantine is typically is associated with the Byzantine empire, which was mostly Greek, so this could be one source of the confusion.

Prostopinije or plain chant used by Ruthenian/Carpatho-Rusyn churches. Confusion in the United States greatly lies here because many Ruthenian Catholic Churches are just simply labelled Byzantine Catholic.

Znamenny primarily used by Russian Old-Believer churches.

Russian or Nikonian Chant by the majority of the Russian Church.

Kievan Chant & Galician Chant used by the Ukrainian Churches.

Serbian Chant for the Serbian, Macedonian, and Montenegrin Churches.

All these churches follow the Byzantine rite and so all of them should be considered as perfectly Byzantine. However, I personally advocate that each church stays with the type of chant that is traditionally theirs, instead of using the chant-type of another particular church, which I’ve witnessed on multiple occasions. Please correct me or add to this list if there are more unique types of chant within the Byzantine rite.

God Bless.