Music within the Church!

[fellicia]

Does anyone attend a catholic service that has modern music?

Is this aloud?

…and does anyone think there should be a service taht does this?

X X X FELLICIA X X X

 

[puzzleannie]

what is your definition of modern? after 1990, after 1960, after 1860, after 1700, after 1000? anything other than Gregorian Chant? anything after the Baroque era? anything composed for piano? anything in English? anything played on electric organ?

 

[JamesD]

My parish does the standard stuff mostly. However, we do have a good group of singers and musicians (including drums).

Once a year we have bluegrass musicians and singers join the group and they do bluegrass hymns. It really is fun.

I feel very strongly that there should be no prohibition on modern music at mass. It needs to be reverent and appropriate to the season or feast. I don’t know if anyone is writing modern mass music but the church should be the patron of the arts like it used to be.

I love the old classical masses and love to hear great pipe organ performances but I don’t think the perfect mass has already been written.

Jim

 

[fellicia]

puzzleannie:

what is your definition of modern? after 1990, after 1960, after 1860, after 1700, after 1000? anything other than Gregorian Chant? anything after the Baroque era? anything composed for piano? anything in English? anything played on electric organ?

I just meant more modern than the hymms. Erm kind of todays music or maybe more of what peoplethat are alive now might listen to at home. I mean i wouldn’t litsen to alot of teh old boring hyms by choice, but i would listen to some of the good christian music writen today.

JamesD,
Wow you have drums…i could not imagine my church having them even in the building never mind using them in mass.

 

[John_of_Woking]

fellicia:

Does anyone attend a catholic service that has modern music?

Is this aloud?

…and does anyone think there should be a service taht does this?

X X X FELLICIA X X X

Is this aloud? I wish it was a…soft!

 

[fellicia]

Funny…Allowed…is that how you spell it?

X X X FELLICIA X X X

 

[John_of_Woking]

fellicia:

Funny…Allowed…is that how you spell it?

X X X FELLICIA X X X

Yep. God Bless, John

 

[AlanFromWichita]

fellicia:

Does anyone attend a catholic service that has modern music?

Is this aloud?

…and does anyone think there should be a service taht does this?

X X X FELLICIA X X X

I typically have little clue what music is played at Masses other than the ones for which I play organ and piano, because I seldom go to them.

One church where I play is historic, has an old pipe organ, and the lady who hired me there likes old music, such as hymns that I also like from when I was in grade school and played them 35 years ago. Usually I’ll get at least one or two “good old” hymns in (Like “Praise to the Lord”), along with one more modern like “Like a Shepherd” and maybe one in-between. I usually play the same hymns at the 8:00 am Mass at my home parish just so I don’t have to pick them out twice. Typically the audience at the 8:00 averages a little older than the other Masses, I think, and they seem to do fine with the hymns that have been around a while.

Personally I used to sneak in a little Rich Mullins music if I needed a little extra to stretch it at Communion. I used to play the accompanyment to “Peace” gently. People who don’t know what it is think it’s beautiful and those who know what it is, like it. I haven’t done that for several months.

To your question, I don’t see anything intrinsically right or wrong about which music is used, old or new. I try to pick hymns that I think the congregation knows so they’ll be able to sing them. I have to keep in mind that the Mass is not about the music, anyway, but the Mass – so I try to tie the music to the Mass in some way, such as to the readings, so the music can support the Mass whenever possible. For example, I would sing “We are the Light of the World” if the readings were about the beatitudes.

Alan

 

[ridesawhitehors]

fellicia:

Does anyone attend a catholic service that has modern music?

Is this aloud?

…and does anyone think there should be a service taht does this?

X X X FELLICIA X X X

I don’t know, Felicia. But anything would be an improvement on the miserable organ hymns and awful singing at my church. (Otherwise, I have a wonderful, orthodox, and holy church parish)

 

[Fidelis]

Our Church has a professional music director that is classically trained, but has a background in pop and jazz. We pretty much go the gamut from traditional hymnns, chant, and modern praise and worship. We also have a wide range of instruments: drums, guitars, piano, violin, trumpet, bongos, small percussion instruments, you name it (not all at once, of course. It depends on the song). We are also forming a classical choir.

Tey do a pretty good job of striking a balance between reverent, lively, singability, and appropriateness to the theme of the Mass readings. As long as this is maintained, along with orthodox content, I’m happy.

 

[Nichevo]

Our Church has a modern band with drums. bongos, keyboard, bass, electric and acoustic guitar with the acoustic guitar being the primary instrument. The music played is usually reworked Protestant pop songs (Lord I lift Your Name on High comes to mind) and Gospel tunes like “Wade in the Water.” The choir usually gathers in line and bears an uncanny resemblance to the Osmonds.

I absolutely despise it. It is revolting and totally detracts from the ability to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist. The guitar player/music director is constantly playing his guitar throughout the consecration to create the right “atmosphere.” I asked why they don’t ever use the organ that we have and was informed that “XXXX (the music minister) doesn’t do organ.” Doesn’t do organ? Like he’s the opening act at the Kerouac Cafe or something. Aside from that our parish is great but the music drives me insane sometimes. Then they insert flyers into the bulletin trying to guilt trip the congregation because they don’t sing.

I admit to being a conservative but what’s wrong with hearing “Hail, Holy Queen” from time to time? The content and reverence really need work at our parish.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Face it folks. We have over a thousand years of liturgical music at our command and there are very good composers out there who write music that is right at home with our traditions. I’m on a break from the choir now but I have sung in our choir for 18 yrs. It is a cathedral choir which includes both professionals and rank amateurs like myself. Some of the stuff we have had to sing for diocesan events has been horrendous. (E.g. I Will Go Up, GIA press, for ordinations). We call these types of song “muppet music” (becuase you can see Kermie and Miss Piggy et al swinging in time to the music). The other alternative name is “sacro-pop”

Drums? Yes. Tympanies all the way down to the bodhran. In liturgical context. A big military drum on Good Friday as the bishop and priests process going boom…boom…boom …sets the stage for chanted version of the Passion and invokes a sense of entering into the Passion w/ Our Lord.

Modern music? You mean some of the drop-dead gorgeous pieces by John Rutter? The new “Creole Mass” which was just composed in New Orleans and skillfully weaves jazz, ragtime and gospel music together in a mass that is reverent and oh, so very traditional. Or do you mean the schlocky pseudo-rock praise music?

Hrolf

 

[Nichevo]

I meant the schlocky pseudo-rock praise music. There is nothing sacred about it. We suffer at the clutches of the OCP, who seem to have a stranglehold on liturgical music akin to an Amway distributor deciding what its members can and can’t buy.

 

[brotherhrolf]

! I’m just old enough to remember when we moved from the pre-Vactican II mass through the 60’s and 70’s when we had to listen to “Sons of God”; “They’ll Know We are Christians…” etc. I LIKED Gregorian Chant and all of our wonderful Irish-American hymns (Praise to the Lord; Holy God We Praise Thy Name; and that all time wonderful May-Crowning hymn “Bring Flowers of the Fairest”, aka Oh, Mary We Crown Thee" aka “Queen of the May”. I simply cannot understand this “hand-swayin”, “feel good” but definitely Protestant “praise music”

 

[John_of_Woking]

! I’m just old enough to remember when we moved from the pre-Vactican II mass through the 60’s and 70’s when we had to listen to “Sons of God”; “They’ll Know We are Christians…” etc. I LIKED Gregorian Chant and all of our wonderful Irish-American hymns (Praise to the Lord; Holy God We Praise Thy Name; and that all time wonderful May-Crowning hymn “Bring Flowers of the Fairest”, aka Oh, Mary We Crown Thee" aka “Queen of the May”. I simply cannot understand this “hand-swayin”, “feel good” but definitely Protestant “praise music”

I find it subjectively repulsive to worship. Some people like it however. If the words are Theologically compatible with the Deposit of Faith I have no problems with it being used…but not in my Place of Worship!

 

[K-McD]

I’d like to make a clarification first. Catholics do not attend a “service” but “participate” in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

On the question of music, I think any music played or sung at Mass is to be, as John of Woking says, “Theologically compatible with the Deposit of Faith.” A lot of music today is not compatible Church teachings. For example, Amazing Grace, I was not saved when I first believed. Or the Christmas song Mary did you Know. (Title?) Yes, Mary did know because as scripture says, “She pondered all these things in her heart.”

There are others, but you get the idea. The music may have a good beat, or may cause you to jump up and shout to the heavens, but is that the way God wants to be worshipped? Is that God centered or people centered? To me, songs like They’ll know we are Christians, and We are the light of the world, are people centered. As compared to Holy God We Praise Thy Name.

I like the instruments mentioned in this thread to be played at Mass. I think any instrument can be played reverently. The music can aid in the worship, but it should not control it.

I like hymns sung at all the parts where it should be sung. The only part of the Mass I think there should not be any music, (or at least no singing) is at communion. For me, it is a time to reflect on all that has happened, (readings, homily, etc.) Instead, I am distracted into singing a hymn, or worse yet an improper hymn. The only time I have to reflect on the Mass is after it’s over. And I absolutely refuse to applaud when the recessional hymn is over.

Don’t get me wrong, I like to sing at Mass whenever it’s appropriate. I encourage my kids to sing. Its just that the music has to be appropriate.

Just my thoughts

 

[fellicia]

AlanFromWichita:

.

To your question, I don’t see anything intrinsically right or wrong about which music is used, old or new. I try to pick hymns that I think the congregation knows so they’ll be able to sing them. I have to keep in mind that the Mass is not about the music, anyway, but the Mass – so I try to tie the music to the Mass in some way, such as to the readings, so the music can support the Mass whenever possible. For example, I would sing “We are the Light of the World” if the readings were about the beatitudes.

Alan

I do agree that the music should tie inwith the mass and that the music is not THE mass, but I do think that it is nice to have music, because of the atmosphere it gives.
[/color:

ridesawhitehors]

I don’t know, Felicia. But anything would be an improvement on the miserable organ hymns and awful singing at my church. (Otherwise, I have a wonderful, orthodox, and holy church parish)
This is exactly what I feel

Nichevo:
I absolutely despise it. It is revolting and totally detracts from the ability to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist.
Could you not attend a different church if you do not like the way it is done at your’s?

brotherhrolf:

Modern music? You mean some of the drop-dead gorgeous pieces by John Rutter? The new “Creole Mass” which was just composed in New Orleans and skillfully weaves jazz, ragtime and gospel music together in a mass that is reverent and oh, so very traditional. Or do you mean the schlocky pseudo-rock praise music?

I simply cannot understand this “hand-swayin”, “feel good” but definitely Protestant “praise music”

I kind of like a bit of both, aslong as it is reverent ofcourse. I think that the hand swaying and stuff is very atmospheric, but yes i would agree that alot of it should maybe be at a concert or a worship gathering rather than at mass. I don’t know about it being totally protestant, I mean i am not protestant but i do like it, although some of it is not very suitable to be used at mass.

K-McD:
I’d like to make a clarification first. Catholics do not attend a “service” but “participate” in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

The only part of the Mass I think there should not be any music, (or at least no singing) is at communion. For me, it is a time to reflect on all that has happened, (readings, homily, etc.) Instead, I am distracted into singing a hymn, or worse yet an improper hymn.

I am sorry, I am used to talking to protestants, who ‘attend service’.

In my church the congregation does not sing at communion, but the choir does, the song used is usually a more traditional one.
Funny enough the church that I went to that was protestant when they have communion (which is once a month I think) they do play more ‘reverent and traditional music’.

 

[Bill_A]

When BAch and the other “classical” COmposers started writing new music for the church some 400-600 years ago it was considered wh0reish and evil. I dont know what tht answer is, except to have an open enough mind to consider what the words and intent are but some people are very narrow minded. Osometimes the Hymess are the same hymes, just sung a different way and some of the Blacks Gospel quores are very full of the Holy SPirit.

 

[tom.wineman]

fellicia:

Does anyone attend a catholic service that has modern music?

Is this aloud?

…and does anyone think there should be a service taht does this?

X X X FELLICIA X X X

As long as it is scripturaly correct and conforms to church doctrine and goes by Rome’s guidelines. But this is not a free for all do as I please type a thing. Diffidently no booty shaking. Otherwise it is liturgy abuse.

 

[Beverly]

K-McD:

The music may have a good beat, or may cause you to jump up and shout to the heavens, but is that the way God wants to be worshipped? Is that God centered or people centered?

In Psalm 149, it says, “Let them praise his name with dancing, making melody to him with timbrel and lyre!” So maybe it is the way God wants to be worshipped! It says in the bible that David leapt and danced before the Lord. Now I am not a fan of liturgical dance but there is no reason that music in mass can’t make you want to tap your feet or clap your hands.

I sing with a group at mass and we sing old hymns and we sing contemporary praise and worship music as long as it does not contradict Catholic doctrine. We usually end mass with a rousing song - yes, we have been known to sing “I Saw the Light” or “I’ll Fly Away”. We have a lot of older people in our church who are so happy when we sing songs they grew up with. We also sing songs like “I Can Only Imagine” by MercyMe. The young people really like this. People who say that all modern contemporary music is not sacred need to rethink this. The song “I Can Only Imagine” is a song that has touched so many people in a profound way. We had this song at my 20 year old nephew’s funeral - it brought so much comfort and peace to us to imagine Steven in Jesus’ presence in Heaven. Yes, I know the really fastidious nitpicker’s will say things like “he was in Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist” or “he won’t go immediately to heaven - he is in Purgatory”. Even though I receive Jesus in the Eucharist and I know it is Him body, blood, soul, and divinity, meeting Jesus in Heaven will be AWESOME in the purest sense of the word. As for the Purgatory thing, we on earth are the ones who exist in time - God exists in the past, present, and future always so there are no timelines with Him. I know God will not mind us imagining Steven in Heaven even if he is in purgatory a long time.

There is nothing wrong with reverent, theologically sound music in mass no matter when it was written. God still inspires musicians today!