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juancpath
Guest
I wonder if 400 years from now, Muslims will be seen as we see the catholic church as it was 400 years ago. Willing to kill everyone who does not follow their religion.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
Well, Islam did start later than Christianity, this is a form of internal “Reformation” between their zealots and moderates. The struggle is more complicated because the geopolitics of today are much more complicated than the geopolitics of 400+ years ago where the known world was smaller and a bit simpler.
The Islamic moderates and liberals will eventually win out, but every religion has the ultra-conservative, unrepresentative fringe which will always stay with us in some form or other.
The Islamic moderates and liberals will eventually win out, but every religion has the ultra-conservative, unrepresentative fringe which will always stay with us in some form or other.
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mainusch
Guest
Who is the “we” who sees the Church as it was 400 years ago as “willing to kill everyone who does not follow their religion?”
Whoever that “we” is would do better to actually study history rather than to simply buy into slanderous allegations without questioning.
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juancpath
Guest
here we go again… thanks NewUlm1976_2000… I guess i’ll take my discussion somewhere else.
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melensdad
Guest
I’m sorry, but just as in your other thread with exactly the same question, as soon as someone simply asks you for a clarification, or subjects your question to a bit of critical analysis you pick up your toys and run home?
Here is your other, identical thread in a different forum: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=187295
Seriously, why are you afraid of simply having your question answered with answers that you did not expect? Or why are you so afraid of being corrected for some of the technical errors you have claimed* (specifically in the other thread on the same topic)*?
This is a very interesting topic, but to discuss it intelligently we must take a look at actual history to base an answer on what the future might hold. Rewriting history and phrasing questions in such a way as to bias an answer, and then not getting the answer you want, should not come as a real surprise.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
The answerers we receive are not always the ones we expected. Or they are not always what we agree with. But an answer is an answer no matter how small.
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manualman
Guest
I suggest you take a college level history course SPECIFICALLY on the medieval period. You choose the college, just stay away from protestant bible colleges. All the reputable specialists are now recognizing the destructive caricatures traditionally painted upon this catholic period by past historians who were biased by their protestant culture.
Ironically, it is the godless pagan culture that is starting to give catholic history a fairer shake than did the historians of America’s more ‘christian’ period. This according to author Dr. Thomas E Woods, Jr.
Ironically, it is the godless pagan culture that is starting to give catholic history a fairer shake than did the historians of America’s more ‘christian’ period. This according to author Dr. Thomas E Woods, Jr.
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
There seems to be sentiment that the reformation was a “good” thing. In order to justify such massive bloodshed the reformation unleashed, there must be something that needs incredible reform. Such a conclusion can only be reached by painting the Catholic Church as murderous.
The house of cards falls down pretty quickly when examining facts, but the house stands because it is buttressed by a need for a justification (a false one if we look at proportionality and theology) for protestantism. Facts cannot refute wishes.
The house of cards falls down pretty quickly when examining facts, but the house stands because it is buttressed by a need for a justification (a false one if we look at proportionality and theology) for protestantism. Facts cannot refute wishes.
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whalegamer2000
Guest
At first I thought the op was referring to the purging of muslims in Spain under Ferdinand and Isabella. But, I guess not?
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melensdad
Guest
Good thought. But I honestly don’t think so. The OP started this thread in two places here, but in the original thread (this is the second one he started) there was a lot of so-called ‘evidence’ cited that was never backed up. When it was refuted then the OP objected claiming he was attacked. I think the OP may simply not understand that there is more ‘evidence’ that what he cited and when his ‘evidence’ was refuted then he started this thread.
In this thread he didn’t seem to get the answer he was fishing for so he apparently stopped posting.
The question originally posed is actually a fascinating one to consider. But it cannot be accepted as an unqualified question. It obviously is coming from a very biased anti-Catholic, or perhaps anti-religion point of view. The wording is structured in such a way as to illicit bias with phrases like “as we see” but without identifying who the “we” is in the question. Clearly most people here on the Catholic Answers forum would be Catholic, clearly a “we” in this forum would logically be “we Catholics” but it is not clear that “we Catholics” consider our Church to be a murderous church as the OP suggests.
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porkscratchings
Guest
Aren’t muslims being seen as murderous fanatics by the western world today?
And would not catholics be seen in the same way in a 100 yrs time, judging by the trend towards conversatism?
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RenaissanceMare
Guest
<<<Aren’t muslims being seen as murderous fanatics by the western world today?
And would not catholics be seen in the same way in a 100 yrs time, judging by the trend towards conversatism?>>>
Despite the trend of “conservatism” in Catholicism, do you truly think that Catholics will ever fly planes full of innocent people into builings full of innocent people? Or rampage through the streets riotting and murdering because someone drew an inappropriate cartoon of the Pope?
And would not catholics be seen in the same way in a 100 yrs time, judging by the trend towards conversatism?>>>
Despite the trend of “conservatism” in Catholicism, do you truly think that Catholics will ever fly planes full of innocent people into builings full of innocent people? Or rampage through the streets riotting and murdering because someone drew an inappropriate cartoon of the Pope?
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
I am simply dumbfounded by your critical thinking skills.
You gave me an existential moment. I lack the necessary communication skills to enter into a dialogue with you and that troubles me.
Time to take a forum break-brake.
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porkscratchings
Guest
Yes. When Christianity became the state religion of the roman empire, Christians did rampage thru the streets tearing down pagan statues, and attacking pagans for idolatry. As Christianity got bigger and more powerful, these waves of persecutions got worse until paganism was outlawed altogether. Persecutions against the jews began from this period also.
Catholics might not fly planes full of innocent people into buildings filled with innocent because this behaviour is more in keeping with the Islamic terrorist teachings of jihad - to martyr oneself in destroying the kuffar. But it is not beyond them to think up and use methods that can be equally destructive, methods that would be more in keeping with their faith. The IRA are catholics who wanted to unite northern Ireland with the rest of the republic and remove the protestants from the land. They bombed buses and buildings filled with innocent people both in Ireland and in England.
History is littered with episodes of mass persecution and murder in the name of religion, ideals, land, resources and insults to someone’s dog!
I’m not criticising catholicism or religion in general but I think that violence is in all humans.
And if past behaviour is a good indicator of future behaviour, violence is always around the corner especially if good leaders are unable to restrain the hot headed fanatics in the religion. I see this happening in Islam today. There are a lot of good imams and mullahs out there, but it is the fanatics who are shouting the loudest and leading people astray.
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