Muslims must return to their original faith, the faith Abraham.

[Analyzer]

It is actually more plausible for Abraham to be considered a Jew than a Muslim. Islam came to existence only after Mohammad claimed to be the messenger of God. There is no evidence in history that testifies to the Islamic presumption that all prophets had come to preach the same message and to establish the same religion named Islam.

**Again, Islam means SUBMISSION, as, Islam is an Arabic word which has a meaning too.

Theologically Islam means SUBMISSION to the WILL OF GOD to gain peace and tranquality in this life and in the afterlife.

And the one who SUBMITS his will to the WILL OF GOD is called a Muslim, in Arabic.

Where is the Will of GOD to follow, in order to become/called someone a Muslim?

The WILL OF GOD was REVEALED by GOD from time to time to HIS PROPHETS/MESSENGERS (pbut). The cCore Message of all WILLs of GOD was same/common with variation in details only.

Since Prophet Abraham )pbuh) too have followed the Will of God (Islam) sent to him by GOD (meant for his period), he was a Muslim. He cannot be called a Jew nor Christian.**

 

[mfbukowski]

Abraham was neither Jewish nor Muslim. The Jews are members of the tribe of Judah, which of course was established much after the lifetime of Abraham.

The bible says that Abraham paid tithes to Melchizadek, who was a priest of the “most high God”. So Abraham was a follower of Melchizadek.

Many believe that there was no priesthood in the old testament but the Levitical priesthood. This is obviously not the case.

I would be interested to hear more about who Melchizadek was from the point of view of the Muslims

In the NT Jesus is also described as a priest after the order of Melchizadek.

 

[Angelos]

**Again, Islam means SUBMISSION, as, Islam is an Arabic word which has a meaning too.

Theologically Islam means SUBMISSION to the WILL OF GOD to gain peace and tranquality in this life and in the afterlife.

And the one who SUBMITS his will to the WILL OF GOD is called a Muslim, in Arabic.

Where is the Will of GOD to follow, in order to become/called someone a Muslim?

The WILL OF GOD was REVEALED by GOD from time to time to HIS PROPHETS/MESSENGERS (pbut). The cCore Message of all WILLs of GOD was same/common with variation in details only.

Since Prophet Abraham )pbuh) too have followed the Will of God (Islam) sent to him by GOD (meant for his period), he was a Muslim. He cannot be called a Jew nor Christian.**

ISLAM means submission to Mohammad’s man-made ideology and earthly kingdom. Since Abraham never endorsed Mohammad’s heresies, he cannot be called a follower of Islam.

 

[tGette]

ISLAM means submission to Mohammad’s man-made ideology and earthly kingdom. Since Abraham never endorsed Mohammad’s heresies, he cannot be called a follower of Islam.

Actually…that is such a great point. Because Muslims are supposed to look to the life of Mohammad as a guide for how to live their lives (the Ahadith, etc.)

So then how could Moses or Abraham do this if they were ignorant of the life of Mohammad…or should I say…existed WAY before Mohammad?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

… how could Moses or Abraham do this if they were ignorant of the life of Mohammad…or should I say…existed WAY before Mohammad?

The Prophets (pbut) who came before the seal of the Prophets needed to follow the guidelines they got from God Almighty.

People during the time of the last Prophet ,after , now & future will need to follow the final guideline.

 

[Angelos]

Actually…that is such a great point. Because Muslims are supposed to look to the life of Mohammad as a guide for how to live their lives (the Ahadith, etc.)

So then how could Moses or Abraham do this if they were ignorant of the life of Mohammad…or should I say…existed WAY before Mohammad?

Exactly! Mohammad claimed that people could reach the reliable information about the former prophets and mesasages only through his fabricated book! We shall never be Muslims since we shall never surrender to Mohammad’s wishful thinking. We need no one after Christ, who became our Savior by SURRENDERING to DEATH on the cross.

 

[rikkk1958]

**I could amend the topic to say that 'Let us all return to the original faith of Abraham. All Jews and Christians and Muslims"

It will be a very good idea. Thanks fro sugegsting it.

He did not believe in Trinity and he did not believe in any God beside One God. He never knew that God had a son or was going to have son… He perhaps never called God as the Father too.

So I suggest that we should all return to the Monotheistic Unitarian faith exactly as it was in the time of Abraham who loved Ishmael and Issac both.**

Planten, we can not do that because we had all the prophets of God telling us just what is going to happen in the future and the future is with Jesus Christ, the begotten Son, the Word that became flesh to lay down His life as ransom for our sins and in order to show the world how much the Father loves His creation. Jesus made all the necessary signs for you and me to believe who He is. It will be difficult for you to understand the Trinity because of your present strong belief in muhammed’s teachings but if only you can open your mind and heart of who Jesus was, you might get enlightened by the Lord. Also, we always have One God because the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are just One. They are not three Gods.

 

[rikkk1958]

I have no problem the word “submission” to God if it is only a concept of every person to obey God. When they say “full submission”, this will have a different effect because we have a gift of free will which is the ultimate test for our salvation. Muslims believed they can always do the second one by submitting fully. The full submission includes prayers, fasting, and of course the “jihad”. They need not commit sin. How are these hypocrites!

On the other hand the difference between them and those who follow Jesus’ Words are too drastic and extreme. Yes, as a Christian I submit to God to obey His command but I accept that I am a sinner. I will work hard to act in a way pleasing to God. My ultimate goal is to Love my God with all my heart, my mind, and my soul, and to love my neighbors as myself. When I do these two great commandments, I know it is relative to everything I will do good, including not to KILL or even just not to beat my wife. I can only explain to those whose hearts are still troubled in accepting Christ, I have no right to kill him if he does not listen. I have all the sacraments to follow in order for me to fully attain the mercy and grace of my Lord. Accept that the world is in sin also and I will pray that all people will someday see the glory of God with the mighty signs He will make. I believe he is coming again in glory. He will come in the least unexpected time.

 

[planten]

Planten, we can not do that because we had all the prophets of God telling us just what is going to happen in the future and the future is with Jesus Christ, the begotten Son, the Word that became flesh to lay down His life as ransom for our sins and in order to show the world how much the Father loves His creation. Jesus made all the necessary signs for you and me to believe who He is. It will be difficult for you to understand the Trinity because of your present strong belief in muhammed’s teachings but if only you can open your mind and heart of who Jesus was, you might get enlightened by the Lord. Also, we always have One God because the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are just One. They are not three Gods.

**Thank you for your excellent reply. But it did not address what I had written. You did not touch any of my points whether you agree to them or not. Please present my post again and give remarks about each point.
Then we will discuss the word became flesh and gave life for us and love of God.

The topic here is whether only Muslims should return to the faith of Abraham or all Jews and Christians and Muslims return to the faith of Abraham? Please comment.
Also tell whether Abraham knew about the father and the son business? See my post and reply to those points. Thanks.**

 

[planten]

Actually…that is such a great point. Because Muslims are supposed to look to the life of Mohammad as a guide for how to live their lives (the Ahadith, etc.)

So then how could Moses or Abraham do this if they were ignorant of the life of Mohammad…or should I say…existed WAY before Mohammad?

**There was no problem for Abraham and Moses to live their life according to the guidance they had from the real One God. They did not need to follow Muhammad or Jesus for their salvation. That should be easily to understood. Do you agree?

Jesus was infact a subordinate prophet under the command of Moses a.s. He was the last prophet in the long line of Israeli prophets who appeared amongst Jews. But Jews rejected him. They rejected John the baptist too.

Jesus was a Jew and he was for the Jews only. He was the promised Messiah for the Jews.But Jews do not accept that. But the christians have also drifted away from that belief. They do not give importance to the fact that Jesus was for the Jews only. Muslims believe that he was just a messenger of God like all other messengers of God.**

 

[Angelos]

**

Jesus was a Jew and he was for the Jews only. He was the promised Messiah for the Jews.But Jews do not accept that. But the christians have also drifted away from that belief. They do not give importance to the fact that Jesus was for the Jews only. Muslims believe that he was just a messenger of God like all other messengers of God.**

According to your scripture, Mohammad was an Arab and he was for the Arabs only since his message was not universal:

Surah 43:44
And lo! it is in truth a Reminder for thee and for thy folk; and ye will be questioned.

Mohammad never preached the Koran out of Arabia. You must be waiting for another prophet that will come with a new and universal message.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

… Mohammad was an Arab and he was for the Arabs only …

And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds.

The Prophets [21.107]

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace

And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds.

The Prophets [21.107]

Surah 28:46
And thou was not beside the Mount when We did call; but (the knowledge of it is) a mercy from thy Lord that thou mayst warn a folk unto whom no warner came before thee, that haply they may give heed.

Surah 42:7
And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt.

Surah 43:2-3
By the Scripture which maketh plain, Lo! We have appointed it **a Lecture, in Arabic that haply ye may understand. **

It is clear in all these verses that the Koran was designed as a message addressing only Mohammad’s folk (Arabs). Thus, it is unreasonable to suppose that Mohammad had a universal mission with a local message. Besides, Mohammad never preached the Koran out of Arabia. He cannot be considered a prophet sent to the mankind.

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam/peace

And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds.

The Prophets [21.107]

if this verse proves Muhammad was sent to all humans, then Jesus as well is said to be sent as a sign and mercy to mankind in surat maryam 21…yet the Quran says its an arabic book to Muhammad’s folks and humanity is not Arab bedouins.

 

[rikkk1958]

**Thank you for your excellent reply. But it did not address what I had written. You did not touch any of my points whether you agree to them or not. Please present my post again and give remarks about each point.
Then we will discuss the word became flesh and gave life for us and love of God.

The topic here is whether only Muslims should return to the faith of Abraham or all Jews and Christians and Muslims return to the faith of Abraham? Please comment.
Also tell whether Abraham knew about the father and the son business? See my post and reply to those points. Thanks.**

PLANTEN, we were once called gentiles but was accepted to know God with the coming of the Son who became flesh through the Virgin Mary. His Words were of God’s and therefore we obey and believed that our salvation is also at hand. The Romans who were the occupier of Palestine at that time were also gentiles that came to know Jesus Christ and became believers. We are called Roman Catholics because of the origin of Christianity which was in Rome with Saint Peter as the Rock who administered the Church after Jesus’ death. The answer to an amendment you raised is not possible for us because we have already fulfilled the promise to Abraham through Jesus. This is an answer which you as a muslim may have not read the full story of the Bible and the explanation of St, Paul in his letters which became known to be inspired and canonized. The reason why I wish you muslims should stick to the faith of Abraham is because God offers you the Book that tells the Word of God from beginning to end, and that if you read it you will find yourself following what needs to be fulfilled. What made you an apostate of Abraham’s faith is because muhammed misled. Perhaps he wanted to imitate God’s Words from the Bible but he made so much errors and his ego boasted his claim to be the messenger of God.

 

[rikkk1958]

**There was no problem for Abraham and Moses to live their life according to the guidance they had from the real One God. They did not need to follow Muhammad or Jesus for their salvation. That should be easily to understood. Do you agree?

Jesus was infact a subordinate prophet under the command of Moses a.s. He was the last prophet in the long line of Israeli prophets who appeared amongst Jews. But Jews rejected him. They rejected John the baptist too.

Jesus was a Jew and he was for the Jews only. He was the promised Messiah for the Jews.But Jews do not accept that. But the christians have also drifted away from that belief. They do not give importance to the fact that Jesus was for the Jews only. Muslims believe that he was just a messenger of God like all other messengers of God.**

Until now you are not getting who Jesus really is after a long period here in the forum. If you do not want to know Jesus then it is not worth arguing with you.
I don’t have problem with your first paragraph. However, you still need to read more of the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, and Letters of the Apostles if you really want to know more about Jesus Christ. If you insist on how much you know about Jesus which just show you have not done your homework, then it is not worth arguing with us because we do know who Jesus really is. Please read our Book again.