Muslims? Saved?

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Paragraph 841

The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

This is a very troubling statement for a religion that outright rejects the gospel.

I agree that it may appear troubling on the surface, but it doesn’t necessarily say what it may appear to say.

It doesn’t say that Muslims are saved. It merely says that they are included in the plan of salvation. But everyone, including the Satanists and the Atheists are included in the plan of salvation. That phrase simply means that “God wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”.

If Muslims, who are entangled in a false religion and on the road to hell “come to the knowledge of the truth”, then they too can be saved. Before coming to the knowledge of the truth, they are saved “potentialy”, but not actually. Just as I, or any other man, am the Pope potentially, but not actually. Since it is possible for any man to be the Pope, it is true to say that he is the Pope potentially. So likewise, it is true to say that the Muslims are saved “potentially” conditioned, of course, on them coming to the knowledge of the truth and converting to the Roman Catholic Church, as least by desire.

Secondly, the Catechism does not say that the Muslims worship the same God as Christians do (although many interpret it that way). It merely says that Muslims worship one god (a false God) who they consider to be merciful.

Likewise, the true God who Catholics worship is also one and merciful. Thus, the false god invented by the Muslims, and the true God of the Catholics have this in common: they are both one and merciful. So, Catholic and Muslims both worship one God who is merciful: the Catholic the true God, and the Muslims a false “god”

Thirdly, the Catechism doesn’t say the Muslims hold the faith of Abraham: it says “they they profess to hold the faith of Abraham”. In other words, they have been deceived into believing that they hold to the faith of Abraham, which in reality they do not.

The new Catechism puts everything it “positive” terms, which can be easily misinterpreted.

The Church has taugh clearly and infallibly that all Muslims who die as Muslims will go to hell. That is a infallibly defined dogma of the Roman Catholic Church, and can never change.

Therefore, since dogmas are fixed, rest assured that the Catholic Church does not teach that Muslims can be saved as Muslims. They can be saved only if they convert to the Catholic Church “outside of which there is no salvation”.

I hope that helps.

 

[Tomster]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church on salvation for non-Christians/non-Catholics:

Della,

If I may add to your reference? The case of the Muslims differs materially from that of Protestants. It is true that, with all their errors, they worship the same God as ourselves - the God who created the world, and who revealed His law to Moses. But, on the other hand, the reject the claim of Jesus Christ to be the Eternal Son of God, and they repudiate His teaching. At first sight this would seem to exclude them from all hope of salvation. For there is no salvation save by faith in Christ. “There is no other name under heavengiven to men, whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Yet, theologians almost universally teach that where ignorance regarding Christ’s claims is invincible, explicit faith is not absolutely requisite, and that Muslims who believe in general whatever God may have revealed regarding the means He has ordained for the salvation of man, thereby makes an act of faith which implicitly includes belief in Christ. He who thus accepts God’s revelation can make an act of supernatural charity, and find sanctifying grace. Undoubtably, the hindrances to salvation are here even greater than they are among Protestants. The light of truth shines far more dimly, and the devil has established his empire over souls more firmly. Yet salvation is not impossible! An act of faith such as has been described renders a man a member of the Church in desire, and thus he may save his soul, not, indeed, through his false religion, but in spite of it.

 

[Verisimilitude]

The Church does not say that a religion may be saved. It says that people may be saved.

Answer this question honestly. Do you desire that Muslims, who have never been taught anything other than Islam, might still be given by God the opportunity for salvation (however God might present that opportunity to them)? Please, answer that question.

Not directed at me, but I’d like to answer- yes.

I said once that I do not think they are the same god. I’d like to clarify that. Allah, as Mohammed revealed, is not the same god as God the Father as Jesus revealed to the world.

However, I do think Muslims worship the same God.

Could the Adversary rightly deny the Truth to a people after Christ, or could he only pervert that truth? Christ warned of false prophets that would/could deceive even the elect. Doesn’t Islam seem to fit that bill?

 

[heisenburg]

God wrote his Law on each of our hearts… Each of us knows what is truth because of what god has written on our hearts…

The heart of a Muslim tells him/her… there is only one God… this is absolutely correct. Because of their desire to find that one god, they found it in the God of Islam, which is a false god.

Are they right that there is only one God? Yes…
Are they right that he is a merciful god? Yes…
Is the desire to find that one god OF god? Yes…
Is the God of Islam the same as the Trinity? No…

They have some of it right… they have some truth… but not all

Can a Muslim become a true honest to goodness Christian? Yes…
Does Gods plan of FOR salvation include Muslims? Of Course…

So…

Can Muslims be saved? Yes…

There… Thats what the Pope means… Please do not bare false witness…

In Christ

 

[Zooey]

I was at Borders this past weekend, & there was a young woman in typical Muslim dress there at the same time. I guess that got me thinking…
There are so many people who have never even heard of Jesus. In other countries, especially. It always makes me sad when I see so many in this country turn to Islam. But what about those in a country where it is illegal to just own a Bible? What about the many women & children who are oppressed by the society they live in, so they never know what Christianity is? Am I supposed to believe they are all going to hell?? God forbid!
What about these poor women who are killed by their families for the least slight to the family “honor”? Stoned, burned alive, whatever…:crying:
There are a lot of innocent victims that I just cannot believe that God is going to judge them by the same standard as a person in a free country, who walks away from Jesus just to be different, or “smart”, or whatever…
To me, that is what is being addressed by what has been quoted here: The innocents, who would have no chance otherwise. The ignorant, not willfully so, but repressed from knowing. How could it be just & right, to treat them the same as a suicide bomber who blows up a building full of people?
I don’t see a blanket statement that every Muslim, every Hindu or whatevver, is going to Heaven. I see a compassionate understanding that God’s ways are higher than our ways. And that we do well to spend more time praying that God’s will be done, & less time gloating over our own (supposed) “chosenness”…

God bless all here.

 

[Mijoy2]

What a shame.

A shame indeed.

When I began my journey back to faith I was at first only exposing myself to Christian radio. There seemed to be something about the/a concept of God and the redeemtion story of His only Son that rang true with me.

But I lost sleep nights with the concept of this (apparently) evil nature of the God who seemed to be entering my heart. This evangelical notion that so many people I loved were pre-destined to hell. The Muslims, Jews, Hindus and may other good religous people I work with each and every day would live out thier lives loving thier family contributing to society, obeying the laws of and worshipping the God taught to them by thier parents and cultures, die, and burn in hell for all eternity.

Fortunately I found the love of the Church Christ instituted and subsequently the Love of Christ, not the unjustice of a misunderstood God.

Yes it’s a shame anyone has to hold to this theology. It must be a terrible way to go through life, looking people in the eye with the “assurance” of thier damnation in mind. This is the Jesus who died on the cross?

 

[joshua_b]

There are so many people who have never even heard of Jesus. In other countries, especially.
There are a lot of innocent victims that I just cannot believe that God is going to judge them by the same standard as a person in a free country, who walks away from Jesus just to be different, or “smart”, or whatever…

I don’t see a blanket statement that every Muslim, every Hindu or whatevver, is going to Heaven. I see a compassionate understanding that God’s ways are higher than our ways. And that we do well to spend more time praying that God’s will be done, & less time gloating over our own (supposed) “chosenness”…

God bless all here.

This brings to mind something I heard once in response to the uber-fundamentalists who espouse “ONLY THOSE WHO ACCEPT JESUS AS THEIR LORD AND PERSONAL SAVIOR WILL BE SAVED” (implying no exceptions whatsoever).

It is important to remember, before you judge whether or not someone will be saved, that the person may not be objectively rejecting Jesus, but rather rejecting Jesus as WE present Him.

The responsibility is on US to give Christ to others, and (to me at least) it is a very humbling and frightening thought that when my journey here is over, and I face judgement, I could very well be held accountable for jeopardizing someone else’s soul because I chose to either not present Jesus to someone else, or chose to present Him in a manner that caused someone else to reject MY PRESENTATION (which may or may not have been sufficiently accurate, charitable, compassionate, or whatever).

“To those whom much has been given, much will be expected”, and I sometimes fear more for the souls of certain Christians than I do for “Muslims”, because my God is just AND merciful.

…just something I think we should all remember before we start making judgements about whether or not anyone has “accepted Jesus”.

 

[Genesis315]

No, can I see?

The Mexican natives interpreted it as Mary, not a god herself (Aztec gods stare at you with wide eyes, while hers are lowered in humility and prayer), trampling their stone serpent moon-god. And if she is doing that, than her God must be the one true God. I think she can also be seen as trampling the Islamic crescent.