Muslims twisting scripture

  • Thread starter Thread starter Loving_disciple
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Loving_disciple

Guest
(8)I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9)I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10)but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11)A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12)I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13)For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15)But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

So I have been talking with a Muslim and he claims that the Bible is corrupt because it has verses like this in it. He takes them word for word and won’t accept my/ the Church’s teaching on these passages and many others. I can prove my points in the NT but defending verse from the OT especially the law books is hard. What would be a good way to shut him down. He wants to destroy my faith that much is obvious to me and covert me to Islam
 
Well, I personally don’t focus that much on the OT - the Old Covenant - except the Commandments and the prophets. I feel that aspects of the OT are of a time and a place, and some of it best placed in the Talmud rather than the Torah.

For me Jesus is my focus - the New Covenant - He is the true expression of God, and God’s nature incarnate.

As for any Muslim trying to ‘win you over’ to Islam, I would suggest you ask him to look a lot closer at the Qu’ran, Hadiths and Talibari, and other Islamic accounts. There is vary much to question and hold reservations about.
 
Loving_disciple said:
(8)I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9)I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10)but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11)A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12)I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13)For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15)But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

So I have been talking with a Muslim and he claims that the Bible is corrupt because it has verses like this in it. He takes them word for word and won’t accept my/ the Church’s teaching on these passages and many others. I can prove my points in the NT but defending verse from the OT especially the law books is hard. What would be a good way to shut him down. He wants to destroy my faith that much is obvious to me and covert me to Islam
Click to expand...
The Qur’an commands men to strike their wives if they’re disobedient. Even the English Qur’an inserts (lightly) in the text but is found nowhere in the Arabic.

As for how men ought to treat their wives Biblically, we know that we must treat them the way Christ loves the Church. We must love them so much that we would be willing to die for them.

Islam is much harsher on women than Christianity. In fact, the highest example for women is that of Muhammad’s wives who all dressed from head to toe in burkah’s.
 
Loving_disciple said:
(8)I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9)I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10)but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11)A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12)I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13)For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15)But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

So I have been talking with a Muslim and he claims that the Bible is corrupt because it has verses like this in it. He takes them word for word and won’t accept my/ the Church’s teaching on these passages and many others. I can prove my points in the NT but defending verse from the OT especially the law books is hard. What would be a good way to shut him down. He wants to destroy my faith that much is obvious to me and covert me to Islam
Click to expand...
I don’t understand how this verses would proof that the Bible is corrupt. Muslims treat their women much harshly. As to why was the treatment of women so harsh, i believe that God wanted to make Jewish society stronger in some way, that’s why the harsh law. Jews were on a mission to i believe, to set the path to Christ. When Christ came He fullfiled the law. There was no need for harsh rules because Christians were and are in many countries and many societies(His religion became universal). There was more space for love and spread of the Word of God.

As for your Muslim friend, ask him what exactly was the point of the coming of Muhammad. Because it seems that he introduced nothing new. He was not prophecized and all he did was to say that we Christians and our Bible got corrupted.
 
Loving_disciple said:
(8)I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9)I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10)but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11)A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12)I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13)For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15)But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

So I have been talking with a Muslim and he claims that the Bible is corrupt because it has verses like this in it. He takes them word for word and won’t accept my/ the Church’s teaching on these passages and many others. I can prove my points in the NT but defending verse from the OT especially the law books is hard. What would be a good way to shut him down. He wants to destroy my faith that much is obvious to me and covert me to Islam
Click to expand...
Basically he is attributing human failures, cultural biases, misunderstandings, to God himself.
If he believes in God (he is a muslim, right?), how can he assert that human beings are God? God’s inspiration in scripture does not mean that God wrote the scriptures himself. Human beings wrote the OT, just like they wrote the Koran. We believe that God inspired the writings to convey what he wills. That does not mean that cultural minutiae from centuries ago apply to today’s culture. Truth is larger that the facts.

Ask him if he has ever passed on a family story, and if he has (who hasn’t?) ask him if his brother would tell the story the exact same way he does, with the exact same facts. If not, does that make him a deceptive liar?
 
Loving_disciple said:
(8)I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9)I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10)but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11)A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12)I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13)For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15)But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

So I have been talking with a Muslim and he claims that the Bible is corrupt because it has verses like this in it. He takes them word for word and won’t accept my/ the Church’s teaching on these passages and many others. I can prove my points in the NT but defending verse from the OT especially the law books is hard. What would be a good way to shut him down. He wants to destroy my faith that much is obvious to me and covert me to Islam
Click to expand...
Scripture has to be understood within the context it was written, the particular culture, the author and who the author was addressing. Not to mention the language it was written in.
It is especially difficult for Old Testament…which is a collection of various kinds of writings…some lore, some poetry…some is literal, some is allegoric and symbolic.

Literalism and cherry-picking is a dangerous thing and is by no means limited to Muslims. There are Christians who do the same.

My sense is that it’s fruitless to get down in the weeds and argue scripture. I wouldn’t go there.

You might say something like:
You know, bible scripture is very complex, and neither of us is a scholar in such things. I’m sure the Koran is complex too, and could be misunderstood if not properly interpreted.
What matters to me is the teachings of Jesus himself, and trying to follow those…to become abetter Christian, as I am sure you strive to be a better Muslim. If we both succeed, the world will be that much better.

Or:
Well, Kareem…I think God will sort it all out in the end. Meanwhile, I will be trying to do as Jesus exhorted me to, which is to love God with all my heart, and to love my neighbor as myself.
 
AtomicB said:
As for any Muslim trying to ‘win you over’ to Islam, I would suggest you ask him to look a lot closer at the Qu’ran, Hadiths and Talibari, and other Islamic accounts. There is vary much to question and hold reservations about.
Click to expand...
Great Advice. Attack the Quran, Muhammad, Hadith… here is a start

youtube.com/watch?v=T3YKJ0vEM8k&feature=c4-overview&list=UUSDZ8T3C0ddASBfUgPcUVhQ

also From a channel on youtube “Apostate Caliph” look him up also…

youtube.com/watch?v=pXCSATYVGBA

Interesting I will have to look into it
 
Loving_disciple said:
Great Advice. Attack the Quran, Muhammad, Hadith… here is a start
Click to expand...
Just saying, “attacking the koran” is not the way to go about this…unless your goal is an endless and fruitless argument ending in enmity. Which it might be, if not for you, for your friend…

But it would be neither Christlike nor Christian, IMHO.
 
How can it be known where the Koran is?
Uthman was not a prophet. How did he know which versions of a particular surah were correct, or whether two nearly identical surah were not each valid, both of them?
Muslims give answers to this. The answers are like the answers given in any religion. First comes the belief; then the rationalization of evidence to prove the belief true. What is needed is to start with Reason, and from that plus evidence to deduce the truth. Muslims will not do that (nor will Mormons). They are too invested in their particular religion (aren’t we all!) to objectively analyse the evidence.

But from my own point of view, I see no reason to believe that Uthman behaved appropriately in ordering copies of the Koran destroyed. “Seven versions” are allowed, say current Muslims, but they are being less than forthright. Those “versions” are in fact, not textually different versions, but “readings” - how to pronounce and voice the surahs. At least that is what has been told to me, and if I am mistaken I hope to be corrected.

You might not want to use this in your discussion. But if you do, get some back up information. Some excellent information, in detail, is available here: answering-islam.org/Green/uthman.htm, but as always, you should research to verify points being made. And you should know that there is a site created specifically to respond to answering-islam from a Muslim perspective, answering-christianity.com. You should be aware of what they say on the issue, and be prepared to rebut their points if a rebuttal is required.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top