My bishop has recently mandated standing during the liturgy where I am not comfortable

[Dovekin]

Actually, no, it doesn’t. It talks about what we do when we receive. It doesn’t address what we do after we receive.

Exactly. The issue is whether “we” is a group of individuals or a collective. Do we finish receiving when I possess the consecrated host or when all have been given it?

As a Catholic, I try to follow what the bishops have said about this. You are free to follow your private interpretation. The bow is done by “the individuals receiving” specifically exempting bowing from what “we” do.

While I am at it, GIRM 43 says

1. The faithful should stand … from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below.

The previous quote from that paragraph is a list of exceptions to the norm. “After the Agnus Dei” refers to after the Agnus Dei while we say non sum dignis=I am not worthy. It does not refer to the Communion Procession that follows.

Again, private interpretations of this passage may vary. I am only trying to present what the bishops have said about how to interpret it. Standing was the decision of the Conference of Catholic Bishops, not of individual bishops. They are not trying to push crazy, personal innovations or however anyone wishes to portray it. The idea is to promote unity as we receive, and discourage the irreverence of going back to your pew and doing whatever, exiting after your part in receiving is over, etc. We receive while we stand and sing together, the Body of Christ filled with our breath and with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gorgias]

As a Catholic, I try to follow what the bishops have said about this. You are free to follow your private interpretation.

LOL! Always fun around here when someone dismisses an opposing view as “private interpretation”…

“After the Agnus Dei” refers to after the Agnus Dei while we say non sum dignis=I am not worthy. It does not refer to the Communion Procession that follows.

Agreed.

Standing was the decision of the Conference of Catholic Bishops, not of individual bishops.

No. The personal opinion of some is that the statement of the USSCB (which you cited) says what you say it says. Some of those expressing this opinion are bishops (and so, what they say, goes, in their dioceses!). But, as I’ve demonstrated, it cannot mean what you say it means, without being absurd on its face.

So, if a bishop wants people to stand, he’s making a change to the liturgy that it seems that the GIRM does not foresee or condone. (After all, as you point out, the point in the GIRM that gives the diocesan bishop the ability to decide unilaterally does not extend to the Communion Procession.)

So, where do we stand? Personal opinions of lay and clergy? What the GIRM asserts?

 

[Mintaka]

Unity of posture for laypeople has never been a thing. Mostly because women with kids, old people, sick people, and extra people have always done Mass according to necessity and convenience, as well as feelings of extra devotion.

If you look at a picture like “Mass in a Connemara Cabin,” some people kneel, some stand, some bow, and some sit on their hunkers. They are all devout and have gone to a lot of trouble to come, but uniformity is not a value. You see similar variety in posture in most devotional pictures of Massgoers, up until the Twentieth century. And even then, there is quite a lot of variety before Vatican II, because laypeople knew the Mass was about Jesus and not them.

Now, the Spartans loved uniformity because they were focused on army life. Same thing for a lot of nuns running parochial schools - uniformity at Mass made it easy to see if a kid was acting up. But it has not historically been a Catholic value.

What is Catholic is to pay attention to God, or herd your kids, and not pay much attention to the people around you until after church.

 

[Mintaka]

Of course, a lot of this silliness stems from the invention of pews and chairs in church, and people lined up in orderly, visible rows. That is very modern, and not very egalitarian. If we were all mobbed together, nobody would be able to tell what somebody on the other side of church was doing, and kids could totally escape observation.

 

[Dovekin]

LOL! Always fun around here when someone dismisses an opposing view as “private interpretation”…

Yes, that was the point. I’m glad you understood!

as I’ve demonstrated, it cannot mean what you say it means, without being absurd on its face

Which of course you did not do. You should do some research on what has been said. The diocese of Cleveland has some resources on their website, citing GIRM, Bishops Committee on the Liturgy newsletter, etc. You might be more believable if you relied on more than just your own interpretation.

At least we agree now that standing is the proper posture during the Communion Procession. Or did you not understand what you were saying with “Agreed”?

 

[Dovekin]

uniformity is not a value. You see similar variety in posture in most devotional pictures of Massgoers, up until the Twentieth century.

And yet, jesus prayed that all may be one at the Last Supper. He offered himself so that we might be united with him as the Body of Christ. The individualistic approach you describe is an aberration that the bishops want to address, so that we may answer God’s call to unity.

I urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Ephesians 4:1-6

 

[tafan2]

13th and 14th century is modern, I like that.

 

[Exegete]

since the NO was promulgated in my old diocese I would always kneel when saying “Lord I am not worthy to enter under thy roof, but only say the word and I shall be healed”

The Ordinary Form of the Mass was only “promulgated” in your former diocese in 2011 when the "Lord I am not worthy to enter under thy roof, but only say the word and I shall be healed” quote became part of the OF Mass?

 

[paperwight]

since the NO was promulgated in my old diocese I would always kneel when saying “Lord I am not worthy to enter under thy roof, but only say the word and I shall be healed”

If that’s really what you’ve been saying, I’m sorry to point out that you have been saying it all wrong.

 

[ELCore]

One of our problems, it seems to me, is that important people making decisions about what we are to do seem to think that unity and uniformity are synonyms. But they are not synonyms.

 

[ralfyman]

I think the GIRM should be followed, and those who have leg or back pains or injuries may stand or remain seated.

 

[Dovekin]

Ahem…

I think the GIRM should be followed, and those who have leg or back pains or injuries may kneel or remain seated.

 

[ralfyman]

I mean just remain seated.