My conscience and scholarly Protestant books

[creationlover]

Hi All,

This is a question for Catholic responses only, all due to respect to folks of other traditions.

I am a convert who happens to have a lot of scholarly Protestant biblical theology books - many written by scholars who have a deep respect for the Catholic church, but have not converted for whatever reason. These scholars will occasionally quote Catholic sources, but are definitely Protestant.

I used to be a Protestant minister, and after I became Catholic I kept the books around for occasional reference. I simply refused to give them away or sell them; I did not want to spread information that is intentionally or unintentionally anti-Catholic. I am in no way trying to be “narrow”; some of the books contain what some would consider straight out heresy (really hard line Calvinistic theology), some are written by 1st class biblical scholars, irregardless of their religious orientation.

The books have collected dust in my garage - I refer to my Catholic sources whenever I have a question now. I kept them in case I would go into Catholic studies; however I chose not to go down that path for personal reasons.

I am about ready to recycle some precious books that could be of great use to committed Catholic who can discern what is Protestant and what is Catholic, or even a Catholic who is into apologetics and want to read what the “other side” says about certain issues.

I do not want the books to get into the hands someone against the Catholic church. As painful as it will be, I would rather recycle them. I say painful because, aside from cost, the books represent a very rich part of my life - my experience in a Protestant seminary. My professors were great and would disagree with me in where I now stand (no pun intended against Luther), but I would not be the person I am today apart from the experience and having spent many arduous yet rewarding hours studying Scripture.

I will be out for a few days, but any thoughts from committed Catholics are certainly welcome. And my garage is really cluttered…

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I doubt that there is any need to throw them away, which is what I assume that you mean by “recycle.”

You could offer them to a Catholic school or library for apologetics use, or even sell them to a Protestant. I personally would not worry about Calivinist ideas in a book leading someone away from Catholicism. The only ones who would believe those arguments would be those already so predisposed.

You could ask you pastor or bishop for moral guidance on this.

 

[Nacho45]

I am in a similar situation and am going to give mine to a good friend who is about to head into seminary.

 

[shelly5254]

I say, keep them and continue to learn from them. I hear from many converts that they wished they had kept their old books. Steve Ray was Baptist and now is Catholic. He says he used to read everything through a Baptist lens. now he has two lenses, a Baptist and a Catholic I am the same way. I surprised my preist when I told him I read and watch anti-catholic stuff often. For me its a great learning tool! It makes me research the topics until I can find the truth. I’m not the type of person to be spoon fed information tho, I need to dig and study things

 

[otjm]

Creationlover, if you are thinking of thinning out your library, you might contact the closest Catholic seminary and see if they would want donations. And if you need any other ideas, contact Scott Hahn.

 

[rfournier103]

I agree with the posters that have talked about donation to a Catholic seminary. That would be the best bet.

If you cannot find a good Catholic home for these books and are talking about recycling in the strictest sense of the word… remove the pages, discard the covers, and deposit the pages in the recycling bin.

 

[aTraditionalist]

I’m not that sentimental. I doubt any Protestant book to not be tainted. I say trash them and be done with it. If they contain even one error that causes another to sin, then it will be on you in the end. Look back fondly on your faith journey, but don’t attach yourself to mere things.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[rfournier103]

I’m not that sentimental. I doubt any Protestant book to not be tainted. I say trash them and be done with it. If they contain even one error that causes another to sin, then it will be on you in the end. Look back fondly on your faith journey, but don’t attach yourself to mere things.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

A very interesting way to look at it (and my saying that does not mean that I disagree with it…)

 

[creationlover]

I doubt that there is any need to throw them away, which is what I assume that you mean by “recycle.”

You could offer them to a Catholic school or library for apologetics use, or even sell them to a Protestant. I personally would not worry about Calivinist ideas in a book leading someone away from Catholicism. The only ones who would believe those arguments would be those already so predisposed.

You could ask you pastor or bishop for moral guidance on this.

True - I doubt the books would lead anyone away from the faith… Asking my pastor is a good idea - his training I trust; in his youth he actually took one course taught by Blessed John Paul II.

 

[creationlover]

I say, keep them and continue to learn from them. I hear from many converts that they wished they had kept their old books. Steve Ray was Baptist and now is Catholic. He says he used to read everything through a Baptist lens. now he has two lenses, a Baptist and a Catholic I am the same way. I surprised my preist when I told him I read and watch anti-catholic stuff often. For me its a great learning tool! It makes me research the topics until I can find the truth. I’m not the type of person to be spoon fed information tho, I need to dig and study things

After a weekend away to think - I am definitely keeping some around. I may get rid of some of my more technical language books and keep the lighter ones.

 

[creationlover]

I’m not that sentimental. I doubt any Protestant book to not be tainted. I say trash them and be done with it. If they contain even one error that causes another to sin, then it will be on you in the end. Look back fondly on your faith journey, but don’t attach yourself to mere things.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

You are addressing my core issue - my conscience. If I sell I am not “comfortable” with putting out books that are objective for the most part, but HAVE ERROR.

My choices as I see them are to recycle, trash or keep. And even in keeping, as mentioned in my op, I find myself preferring Catholic sources. I like to compare with Protestant sources, but that is about it.

I may contact Scott Hahn as well. Bottom line - I LOVE the faith and know 1st hand the damaging effects of Protestant teaching, as grateful as I am for having the seminary experience.

 

[creationlover]

Creationlover, if you are thinking of thinning out your library, you might contact the closest Catholic seminary and see if they would want donations. And if you need any other ideas, contact Scott Hahn.

I like the Scott Hahn idea. Unfortunately, the local seminary in my area is a bit “forward thinking” in its views…

 

[otjm]

I like the Scott Hahn idea. Unfortunately, the local seminary in my area is a bit “forward thinking” in its views…

I can’t really respond to that as a) I have no idea what seminary is near you, and b) considering that some people would be hard put to be so polite as to say that Vatican 2 was/is “forward looking”…

What is liberal and what is conservative in part is determined by where one stands on the spectrum. I have friends who consider me to be to the right of Attila the Hun; and others are convinced that I am to the left of Trotsky. So go figure.

There are those who seem horrified that someone professing to be Catholic would ever take a course from the Protestant professor. And the list goes on… not sure of the value (new) of your books, nor for that matter the content; but if they are above college level, then I would again suggest considering donating them somewhere that they might do good.

 

[xzereus]

some are written by 1st class biblical scholars, irregardless of their religious orientation

How can one be a first class biblical scholar and yet be at odds with the truth of scripture–that is, the Catholic faith? This is impossible.

As for Protestant books, I’d say they should be handled the same as Protestant Bibles. Pope Saint Pius X gave us very clear instructions:
Pope Saint Pius X:

32 Q. What should a Christian do who has been given a Bible by a Protestant or by an agent of the Protestants?
A. A Christian to whom a Bible has been offered by a Protestant or an agent of the Protestants should reject it with disgust, because it is forbidden by the Church. If it was accepted by inadvertence, it must be burnt as soon as possible or handed in to the Parish Priest.

33 Q. Why does the Church forbid Protestant Bibles?
A. The Church forbids Protestant Bibles because, either they have been altered and contain errors, or not having her approbation and footnotes explaining the obscure meanings, they may be harmful to the Faith. It is for that same reason that the Church even forbids translations of the Holy Scriptures already approved by her which have been reprinted without the footnotes approved by her.

Since a Protestant “theology” book is probably even more likely to be in error than a Protestant Bible, it makes a lot of sense that the same rules should apply. How can error be used to promote truth, or heterodoxy to encourage orthodoxy? It cannot.

 

[Contarini]

How can one be a first class biblical scholar and yet be at odds with the truth of scripture–that is, the Catholic faith? This is impossible.

Well, it’s real. Get used to it. A faith at odds with reality is not much of a faith.

N. T. Wright, Richard Hays, Richard Bauckham. . . these are some of the finest Biblical scholars living.

Wright sees the Scriptural teaching of Paul very clearly. He just engages in some sophistry to try to persuade himself and others that he hasn’t really repudiated Protestantism (and puts emphasis on other things where the Catholic position relies more heavily on extrascriptural Tradition, like Marian dogma).

Since sola scriptura is false, it’s quite possible for a person to have great insights into Scripture while still not accepting the whole of Tradition.

Edwin

 

[xzereus]

Well, it’s real. Get used to it. A faith at odds with reality is not much of a faith.

N. T. Wright, Richard Hays, Richard Bauckham. . . these are some of the finest Biblical scholars living.

Wright sees the Scriptural teaching of Paul very clearly. He just engages in some sophistry to try to persuade himself and others that he hasn’t really repudiated Protestantism (and puts emphasis on other things where the Catholic position relies more heavily on extrascriptural Tradition, like Marian dogma).

Since sola scriptura is false, it’s quite possible for a person to have great insights into Scripture while still not accepting the whole of Tradition.

Edwin

The teaching of the Apostles in Sacred Scripture cannot be separated from the teaching of the Apostles in Sacred Tradition. Both Tradition and Scripture are the words of God, and they cannot be separated by even the thinnest veil.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say:
The Catholic Church:

111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."77

The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.

112 1. Be especially attentive “to the content and unity of the whole Scripture”. Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God’s plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.
The phrase “heart of Christ” can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.

113 2. Read the Scripture within “the living Tradition of the whole Church”. According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church’s heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God’s Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church").

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith. By “analogy of faith” we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.

Sacred Scripture cannot be read without being read and interpreted in the Spirit in which it was written, and the Catholic Church declares that this includes the living Tradition of the Church. The false division between Tradition and Scripture which you have attempted to create is a fabrication, and one which is irreconcilable with the Church’s teaching.

While these scholars may offer some insights into the historical context of Scripture, they cannot be called “first class,” for they have abandoned the pillar and foundation of truth, the Church, through whose Tradition Scripture must be interpreted. These scholars can do nothing to compare to the doctors of Christ’s Church while they remain separated from it.

 

[Contarini]

The teaching of the Apostles in Sacred Scripture cannot be separated from the teaching of the Apostles in Sacred Tradition. Both Tradition and Scripture are the words of God, and they cannot be separated by even the thinnest veil.

I understand and agree with that.

However, Protestants do not in fact reject all of Tradition. It’s just not all or nothing as you are claiming. And the proof is in the pudding. N. T. Wright has fundamentally refuted sola fide, even though he doesn’t like to admit that that’s what he’s done.

Reality is more complicated than you want it to be. You will just have to learn to live with it.

What’s your idea of a first-class scholar? The recent first-class Catholic Biblical scholars who come to my mind are Raymond Brown, Joseph Fitzmyer, Roland Murphy, and John Meier. But Wright is, in some respects, more supportive of Catholic orthodoxy in his conclusions than they are (i.e., he’s a generally more conservative scholar).

Modern Biblical scholarship is an ecumenical discipline, and rightly so.

Edwin

Edwin

 

[Estevao]

The teaching of the Apostles in Sacred Scripture cannot be separated from the teaching of the Apostles in Sacred Tradition. Both Tradition and Scripture are the words of God, and they cannot be separated by even the thinnest veil.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say:

Sacred Scripture cannot be read without being read and interpreted in the Spirit in which it was written, and the Catholic Church declares that this includes the living Tradition of the Church. The false division between Tradition and Scripture which you have attempted to create is a fabrication, and one which is irreconcilable with the Church’s teaching.

While these scholars may offer some insights into the historical context of Scripture, they cannot be called “first class,” for they have abandoned the pillar and foundation of truth, the Church, through whose Tradition Scripture must be interpreted. These scholars can do nothing to compare to the doctors of Christ’s Church while they remain separated from it.

Sure they can. I don’t know where my faith would be right now if it weren’t for the work of protestant evangelical bible scholars who have refuted the attacks of modernist bible scholars like Raymond Brown and Bart Ehrman. Please tell me the Catholic equals of F.F. Bruce, Daniel Wallace, Darrell Bock, Craig Blomberg, et al and I will start reading their works right now.

 

[Contarini]

Sure they can. I don’t know where my faith would be right now if it weren’t for the work of protestant evangelical bible scholars who have refuted the attacks of modernist bible scholars like Raymond Brown and Bart Ehrman. Please tell me the Catholic equals of F.F. Bruce, Daniel Wallace, Darrell Bock, Craig Blomberg, et al and I will start reading their works right now.

Well, Raymond Brown, but apparently you don’t like him much

Edwin