My mentally ill spouse and contraception

[Rau]

The Spirit of ALL of “the law” is expressed in Mt 22:36-40. The Spirit of the law is Love…

We are suggesting that contraception is not “intrinsically evil” yet these things cannot be treated in complete isolation.
I am surprised that so many here seem to be overlooking a very salient point in the OP - - It’s even in the title…“Mentally ill spouse”. While the act itself may remain “intrinsically evil”, the culpability for that act can certainly change based on the specific circumstances…

Killing is intrinsically evil - yet we have no problem affording exceptions where it is allowed and even forgiven before hand.
Lying is intrinsically evil - Yet here again - there are exceptions and where culpability is reduced or eliminated.

In each of these cases - the mitigating factor that allows for the exception is the application of the “Spirit of the Law” which is Love.

Peace
James

James, I believe what you write is theological wrong.

Reduced culpability is not something to be assesed in advance, and which can then give the go-ahead to an act. Culpability is a matter for God to deal with, after the fact. We don’t tell a teenager that “hey, for the next few years, your hormones will be raging, so masturbation is ok”. No - we preach the law accurately, we acknowledge it is difficult, and we encourage them to do their best. And they know that reconciliation is available if they fail. God will handle the issue of culpability if and when it arises.

There are no exceptions to intrinsic evils. Murder (which is the intrinsic evil when an innocent is deprived of their life by the intentional act of another) has no exceptions. Acts which lead to the death of another may not be murder - eg, an act of self-defence is not an act of murder. it is not an “exception”. The catechism and other catholic teachings are clear on this.

Euthanasia (eg. of an elderly dying relative) is an act of murder “justified” by love. Your reasoning would likely lead one to conclude that euthanasia in such a circumstance is some kind of exception to the prohibition on munder. That is simply wrong, no matter how much love was involved.

 

[silver_moon]

My wife and I have been married for nearly ten years. We have two amazing children (5 and 7) and they are healthy, happy, and God loving. My wife and I are both active and participating Catholics. However, my wife also suffers from bi-polar disorder and ocd. She is on medication for these things. She also suffered severe postpartum depression after the birth of our second child in addition to a physically difficult pregnancy which rendered her bed ridden for months. She is a wonderful mother, but due to her mental instability, history of postpartum depression, and severe illness during pregnancy she is extremely reticent to have another child. She understands and agrees with the Church’s stance on contraception, and is well aware of NFP. Arguments over these issues have brought my marriage to the brink of divorce.

She knows where she stands, she knows the stance of the church, and she know where I stand… She is the mother of my children and a wonderful person. I love her dearly and I don’t know how to cope with this situation… Any advice?

-ps. We are aware and agree with Church teaching. She is willing to remain in a state of sin if it means that her mental illness cannot hurt the children we have or potential future children.

Hello,

I’ve faced similar issues and I have some questions for you to consider. I don’t think you need to provide answers here, it’s just some things to think about.

Other people have talked about the Church’s position on contraception and the need to consult a priest. Does your wife have a primary care doctor, or psychiatrist and psychologist she sees regularly?

How long has she been stable on her medication? When was the last time her meds were changed?

When was she diagnosed with her conditions? How long did it take for her to get a stable medication balance after that?

Has she ever been hospitalized for psychiatric illness? If so is she worried about it happening again?

Does she anticipate her physical illness would recur?

What do the doctors say about the chances of your children developing psychiatric problems?

Would having another baby create expenses that make it difficult or impossible for her to pursue treatment?

Just some things to think about. I don’t know if anyone has suggested it but it might really be good for both of you to meet with her doctors together, if you haven’t already. Not to get an opinion on contraception, but to make sure you’re both on the same page about her health.

 

[Rau]

Hello,

I’ve faced similar issues and I have some questions for you to consider. I don’t think you need to provide answers here, it’s just some things to think about.

Other people have talked about the Church’s position on contraception and the need to consult a priest. Does your wife have a primary care doctor, or psychiatrist and psychologist she sees regularly?

How long has she been stable on her medication? When was the last time her meds were changed?

When was she diagnosed with her conditions? How long did it take for her to get a stable medication balance after that?

Has she ever been hospitalized for psychiatric illness? If so is she worried about it happening again?

Does she anticipate her physical illness would recur?

What do the doctors say about the chances of your children developing psychiatric problems?

Would having another baby create expenses that make it difficult or impossible for her to pursue treatment?

Just some things to think about. I don’t know if anyone has suggested it but it might really be good for both of you to meet with her doctors together, if you haven’t already. Not to get an opinion on contraception, but to make sure you’re both on the same page about her health.

Excellent suggestion. There is quite an effectiveness gap between various treatments. Is the woman in question actually receiving the best possible treatment, or enduring something quite sub- optimal? A review, with an appropriate specialist(s), is a great suggestion.

 

[NeedsMercy]

NeedsMercy,

I’ve always been curious about this and maybe you can explain. What is the real “spirit” of a law that reads:

How can its spirit be anything other than what it says? They didn’t write, “It’s better to have lots of kids” or “We prefer that you use natural methods, so try to avoid contraception when you can.” The pope wrote “contraception is intrinsically evil.” Full stop.

nodito, it’s interesting that you didn’t bother to comment on the other part of my statement and that’s the whole point. You can’t look at these things in a vacuum, as many are wont to do. That is why consulting a spiritual advisor is best. It is not a black or white issue. People get sick and may be unable to make the best decisions for their spiritual welfare, let alone their physical and mental well-being. Do you know what happens to a person when they are in a deep depression or experiencing mania? They aren’t thinking “What is the nature of my vaginal mucus this morning?” They are thinking things like “Is today the day I end my life?” and “Wanna see me fly over traffic?” And not all medications work the same for everybody. What works for Joe next door may do squat for Jane. Jane may go for years trying to find doctors and medications that will alleviate her suffering. Please try not to judge these situations so rigidly.

 

[JRKH]

James,

If the spirit of the law is love, then how can it be within the spirit of the law, i.e., loving, to recommend something intrinsically evil? It would seem to be that this would be the exact opposite of the spirit of the law.

This is quite true…Which is why I recommended nothing except to make an appointment with their priest.

I did not overlook the fact that the are circumstances in the OP’s description which may reduce culpability. But we’re talking about how to best love a person. And I take exception to your claim that it is loving to tell/allow/encourage/permit a mentally ill person to contracept. It seems to me, rather, if we truly want to love this person, we do all we can to protect him or her from that which a rational, healthy person should avoid because they realize it’s harmful.

I quite agree - but consider this - the single most important statement in your comment above is, “…we do all we can to protect…”. Yes - we do all that we can, then then we have to let it go.

I get the impression from what the OP has written that his wife is doing all that she can - given her current situation and mental state - to act responsibly and out of love for her children. The OP said that his wife has stated that, “She is willing to remain in a state of sin if it means that her mental illness cannot hurt the children we have or potential future children”.
Jesus stated that there is no greater love than this - that one lay down their life for another. This sounds to me like what this woman is, in effect, saying.
Now her thinking might be wrong.
She might need more education.
There might be other options.
Yet I see NOTHING in what the OP has shared here to indicate that his wife is acting with any sort of ill intent. Quite the contrary, she seems to be acting out of love for her family.

The OP stated that, “….these issues have brought my marriage to the brink of divorce”. I’m sure that none of us would wish to see this family broken up by divorce. So - given all that I can see here, we must show mercy…recognize that both parties in this are trying to act in a loving and caring manner…doing the best that they can…and recognize further that they need time and the counsel of a good spiritual director.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Hello,

I’ve faced similar issues and I have some questions for you to consider. I don’t think you need to provide answers here, it’s just some things to think about.

Other people have talked about the Church’s position on contraception and the need to consult a priest. Does your wife have a primary care doctor, or psychiatrist and psychologist she sees regularly?

How long has she been stable on her medication? When was the last time her meds were changed?

When was she diagnosed with her conditions? How long did it take for her to get a stable medication balance after that?

Has she ever been hospitalized for psychiatric illness? If so is she worried about it happening again?

Does she anticipate her physical illness would recur?

What do the doctors say about the chances of your children developing psychiatric problems?

Would having another baby create expenses that make it difficult or impossible for her to pursue treatment?

Just some things to think about. I don’t know if anyone has suggested it but it might really be good for both of you to meet with her doctors together, if you haven’t already. Not to get an opinion on contraception, but to make sure you’re both on the same page about her health.

I agree with Rau. A great suggestion.

 

[JRKH]

James, I believe what you write is theological wrong.

Perhaps…I tend a little frustrated when people do not seem to understand what I am trying to convey - - and I get even more frustrated when I recognize my severe lack of ability in trying to convey it…
Sorry…

Reduced culpability is not something to be assesed in advance, and which can then give the go-ahead to an act. Culpability is a matter for God to deal with, after the fact. We don’t tell a teenager that “hey, for the next few years, your hormones will be raging, so masturbation is ok”. No - we preach the law accurately, we acknowledge it is difficult, and we encourage them to do their best. And they know that reconciliation is available if they fail. God will handle the issue of culpability if and when it arises.

Actually I think that you just stated very well, what I have been trying to say all along. It isn’t so much about giving the “go-ahead” in advance as it is about, as you say above, “encourage them to do their best. And they know that reconciliation is available if they fail. God will handle the issue of culpability if and when it arises.”
It’s a matter of meeting the people where they are, working with the situation at hand, and moving forward in the most productive way possible.

Also - I agree that we must “teach the law accurately” what at the same time recognizing that it is difficult. In this regard I think that the OP is one of the more refreshing postings on this sort of thing. So different from the ones we so often see that simply disagree with Church teaching.
TPG and his wife recognize the teachings and agree with them…yet they are difficult… they struggle… they fail… they rise…they try to move on…to do better… and to love as best they can.
I will not condemn them for this. I will encourage them.

Peace
James

 

[nodito]

nodito, it’s interesting that you didn’t bother to comment on the other part of my statement and that’s the whole point. You can’t look at these things in a vacuum, as many are wont to do. That is why consulting a spiritual advisor is best. It is not a black or white issue. People get sick and may be unable to make the best decisions for their spiritual welfare, let alone their physical and mental well-being. Do you know what happens to a person when they are in a deep depression or experiencing mania? They aren’t thinking “What is the nature of my vaginal mucus this morning?” They are thinking things like “Is today the day I end my life?” and “Wanna see me fly over traffic?” And not all medications work the same for everybody. What works for Joe next door may do squat for Jane. Jane may go for years trying to find doctors and medications that will alleviate her suffering. Please try not to judge these situations so rigidly.

NeedsMercy,

Your post was three sentences long and I agreed with two of them, which is why I only commented on the portion that I felt was questionable. I have no first-hand experience with mania but I can well imagine a situation in which a mentally ill person is terrified of becoming pregnant and I agree that practicing NFP can be difficult. But for the record, I’m not insisting this couple use NFP. All I’m saying is it’s wrong for them (for everyone!) to contracept. In a situation where pregnancy would be so dire, abstinence may well be the best option. That’s not being rigid, it’s being honest. And it’s what our Church teaches.

 

[NeedsMercy]

NeedsMercy,

Your post was three sentences long and I agreed with two of them, which is why I only commented on the portion that I felt was questionable. I have no first-hand experience with mania but I can well imagine a situation in which a mentally ill person is terrified of becoming pregnant and I agree that practicing NFP can be difficult. But for the record, I’m not insisting this couple use NFP. All I’m saying is it’s wrong for them (for everyone!) to contracept. In a situation where pregnancy would be so dire, abstinence may well be the best option. That’s not being rigid, it’s being honest. And it’s what our Church teaches.

Well, it appears our definitions of “rigidity” are different. You asked before about the “spirit” of the law. As JRKH mentioned, love is the basis for the law. Yes, we need to respect all life. In my opinion, part of respecting life is consideration for the welfare of the family, especially the living children. As the child of a mentally ill parent, I can tell you, children suffer terribly in these situations. First, from possibly receiving the dirty end of the genetic stick; but also, from having a parent that is really only present part of the time, if that. I was somewhat lucky: my dad didn’t drink. But his dad did which was incredibly worse. So what does a couple do? Abstain? Well, that would depend. If both agree, I suppose that would be fine. But I just can’t imagine the discord in the family if one of the couple agrees on the surface, yet inwardly resents the partner for taking this course of action. Do they throw caution to the wind and procreate without regard? No. Taking precautions against unwanted pregnancies would be in order. If the Church–and a priest speaking on her behalf–would forbid every single form of artificial contraception in every single case of mental illness, well, I think that might be considered “rigid”. Of course, this is only my opinion, and you are free to reject it, dislike it, etc.

 

[JRKH]

Great conversation everyone…

Something that I think is important to interject here…and I mentioned it earlier too…is that one does not reject Church teaching or act in isolation on these matters. Hence the repeated comments about talking with a priest.

Something else that perhaps needs to be recognized and clarified is that when a person or a couple is in such a difficult situation and are receiving counseling, they need to keep this very private. They should not go out and say “Oh the priest said (this or that) is OK…”
Whatever advice or direction the priest gives for that person or couple, in that specific situation is precisely that - personal and specific and is very likely part of an ongoing effort to bring all things in line with Church teaching.

It is extremely hard for us here to try to deal with all of the ins and outs of a given situation - let alone try to say what is best at a given point in a given situation.
About the best we can do is to say that The Church is quite correct in ALL of her teachings…but discerning the best and proper way to apply those teachings in some situations can be both complex and difficult.

Peace
James

 

[nodito]

Well, it appears our definitions of “rigidity” are different. You asked before about the “spirit” of the law. As JRKH mentioned, love is the basis for the law. Yes, we need to respect all life. In my opinion, part of respecting life is consideration for the welfare of the family, especially the living children. As the child of a mentally ill parent, I can tell you, children suffer terribly in these situations. First, from possibly receiving the dirty end of the genetic stick; but also, from having a parent that is really only present part of the time, if that. I was somewhat lucky: my dad didn’t drink. But his dad did which was incredibly worse. So what does a couple do? Abstain? Well, that would depend. If both agree, I suppose that would be fine. But I just can’t imagine the discord in the family if one of the couple agrees on the surface, yet inwardly resents the partner for taking this course of action. Do they throw caution to the wind and procreate without regard? No. Taking precautions against unwanted pregnancies would be in order. If the Church–and a priest speaking on her behalf–would forbid every single form of artificial contraception in every single case of mental illness, well, I think that might be considered “rigid”. Of course, this is only my opinion, and you are free to reject it, dislike it, etc.

NeedsMercy, It sounds like you had a rough childhood and so I can understand how you are quick to sympathize with people in these situations.

My suspicion - and correct me if I’m wrong - is that you do not really believe that contraception is “intrinsically evil,” which is the phrase the Church uses.

A hypothetical for you: Suppose there were a situation in which a person were asking permission to do something which you did consider to be always evil. For example, most Americans agree that adultery is intrinsically wrong. Do you? Suppose a man came on CAF and said his wife was refusing sex with him for whatever reason and that this deprivation was causing him to be resentful of his wife, short with his children, and frustrated with life in general. He loves his family and doesn’t want to leave them but would like to know if God means for him to be celibate the rest of his life or if it might be permissible for him to take a lover or visit a prostitute. Do we tell him to consult a priest because his culpability might be reduced if he does commit adultery and then remind him to do his best but God is forgiving if he fails? Do we believe that the Church is being rigid in insisting that this man remain true to his marriage vows? Or do we acknowledge that his is a difficult cross to bear but that he must remain faithful and we should advise him to fast and pray in spite of the temptation to do something immoral?

If you believe that contraception is not always that wrong, consider at least the OP has said he agrees with the Church on the matter and so you are in effect trying to convince him to betray his own conscience.