My parish does not support apologetics study

[panther]

For months a few friends and I have tried to get our parish to sponsor an apologetics study group, only to be told that it’s a barrier to ecumenism and doesn’t represent an enlightened Catholic path. Meanwhile, they’re pushing things like centering prayer - uck .

We’re studying in a group on our own, and are content to have the Holy Spirit work however he pleases, but I find it curious that the study of Catholic apologetics is looked down upon.

Has anyone else here experienced this? Were there any effective approaches you used to change the minds of your pastor, RE director, etc.?

Thanks!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

For months a few friends and I have tried to get our parish to sponsor an apologetics study group, only to be told that it’s a barrier to ecumenism and doesn’t represent an enlightened Catholic path. Meanwhile, they’re pushing things like centering prayer - uck .

We’re studying in a group on our own, and are content to have the Holy Spirit work however he pleases, but I find it curious that the study of Catholic apologetics is looked down upon.

Has anyone else here experienced this? Were there any effective approaches you used to change the minds of your pastor, RE director, etc.?

Thanks!

You won’t change their minds. Study on your own, invite others by personal invitation. Let your pastor know how many are meeting and invite him to stop by when ever he has the time. In other words don’t “hide it” he cannot prohibit you or other from meeting, so stick with it even if threatened. You can also approach others from other parishes to join and spread the word.

 

[Lancer]

Yea…when this happened in another diocese that I used to belong to…I went to the Bishop and asked him to come speak to small group of us about apologetics and defending the Catholic faith…His Excellency was delighted to come and share his prowess and knowledge of our Catholic faith. I had no problem from the pastor from then on…a few long silent looks now and then,…but I just smiled, because I believed that I was used to help him (no idea if he ever changed his heart or mind).

After this little episode…I also purposely went to confession to this same pastor whenever I went to receive the sacrament of Penance…and I confessed my sins in my first name to “completely own” my sins…so if he wanted to think ill of me…I gave him plenty to “chew” on.

Lastly, remember the first and most important responsibility of any/every Bishop is to defend and protect the deposit of faith handed down to him from the apostles…sounds something like apologetics to me! Also, every priest in the diocese including the pastors are assisting the bishop…they have no diocesan authority without that bishop…your local Church exists becasue of the bishop…a parish/pastor is simply a spiritual and practical tool for the bishop to minister to his flock…not the pastor’s flock…but the bishop’s flock…the bishop is the only designated apostolic Shepard in the diocese…everyone else is simply there to assist him.

Bottom line: always in charity…but…never, ever let a pastor, priest or any laity…rob you of your canonical rights to practice the fullness of your faith as prescribed by Holy Mother Church…the Pope and the Magisterium (Bishops in communion with The Pope)…this goes “double” if a bishop violates your canonical rights.

Pax Christi

 

[panther]

Great suggestions - thanks!

We do have one of our associate pastors who supports us, but he has to do it on the sly. I won’t say that we’ve been forbidden or threatened or anything like that. It’s just an attitude of not wanting to have anything to do with us. It’s interesting - all of the members are active in other ministries in our church and I would say are considered to be well-respected members of the parish, for whatever that’s worth.

We’ve never tried to hid what we do, and we have made it very clear (always charitably) that we’re going to do the study, regardless.

I’m just puzzled as to why apologetics has such a bad reputation. We’re not out to “Protestant-bash” or anything like that. It’s more of a corrective to prior bad catechesis and is to enrich our own love of God and his Church. How can anyone be against studying what the Church believes and has taught throughout the centuries?

Anyway, the group is growing through word of mouth - we’ve tripled our first year’s group, and I anticipate even more people wanting to join. So the Holy Spirit is working and we’re having a wonderful time!

It will be interesting to see where it all ends up . . .

 

[baltobetsy]

Believe it or not, but there are many parishes where the pastors are simply not interested in promoting orthodoxy. I heard our Archbishop speak a few weeks ago. He told the audience that he had begun a certain ministry and sent information about it to all the parishes, asking them to place it in the churches. It saddened him to note that many of the pastors have refused to comply. I was quite struck by his patience with the whole issue. I think he realizes that a certain generation of priests will soon be retiring, and then things will be better. The funny thing is, he is also of that generation. I hope the Holy Father never accepts his retirement!

Betsy

 

[DOShea]

I think some of it depends on how the idea is offered. And please be clear, I am not saying anyone proposed it “wrongly,” just offering food for thought.

One night we had the Pastor out to dinner and one of the things we talked about was people asking to start something new. He mentioned kind of casually that many times when people come to him they have no plan, so it makes him a bit leery of giving a thumbs up because he’s not sure if they are expecting him to do all the legwork and planning or what. So his standard answer has become something like "find 3 more people interested, make a plan, and I’ll meet with the four (or more) of you and decide based on the plan you present to me.

Not saying that’s your case, but it might be in some cases.

Apologetics is not looked down on in my parish, but it isn’t looked up to either. If I had to guess, I would say it has to do with not having a group out there with the parish’s name on it being any kind of interface with other faiths in some unofficial, official manner. I don’t think the Msgr. wants to test people’s knowledge, and he doesn’t want to go supervise debates, which is probably how he views it all happening. I think it’s the possible confrontation aspect of it that makes him wary of it. I know it’s not the whole idea of it, because he is extremely knowledgeable about it and always willing to answer questions in that regard.

There may also be the “peace in the family” aspect too. As you well know, there are a lot of Catholics out there who could stand to gain from apologetics. It could be that as the knowledge of a small pocket of the parish grows, there may be some fear as to how they will convey this to other parishioners. Fear of confrontations, that kind of thing. All speculation on my part, just offering possible ideas that might be stumbling blocks.

 

[NHInsider]

I’m just puzzled as to why apologetics has such a bad reputation. We’re not out to “Protestant-bash” or anything like that. It’s more of a corrective to prior bad catechesis and is to enrich our own love of God and his Church. How can anyone be against studying what the Church believes and has taught throughout the centuries?

Given the mention of “ecumenism” in the original response, I wonder if your pastor was anticipating that this was going to be some kind of “confrontation training”? Maybe if the opportunity arises (and given the growth you’re experiencing, it might ) you could pitch the idea of a “Catholic Basics” class? Emphasize that the idea is to strengthen parishoners in the basics of their faith (knowing full well that the stronger they are in the basics, the better defenders they will be).

 

[panther]

Great responses, all.

We have certainly emphasized that this group is to strengthen our own faith as Catholics, especially for those of us who weren’t catechized particularly well. We laid out the entire curriculum, gave all our reference materials and repeatedly asked “the powers that be” to attend any meetings that they wanted to. We’ve really tried to bend over backwards to be open and transparent, as well as charitable.

Our first year, it was a core group of 3 with each of us working through the curriculum, doing extended study, writing our own “position papers,” etc. This year when we decided to go through the program again, despite no church backing, the group has jumped to 12 within the first week, all by word of mouth. I fully expect the group to grow from here, because I think there’s such a great need and desire.

So, we’re off to the races! Hopefully all will go smoothly and the parish eventually will support the study. If not, we’ll simply keep on as we have.

Thanks again for all your thoughtful responses!

 

[Elzee]

Your parish sounds like mine. Our priest shows no interest in evangelization, Catholic catechesis or anything that is blatantly “Catholic” in nature - no mention of our Blessed Mother, Saints, Confession, apologetics, the Rosary…not interested. But yes, Centering Prayer is booming. It’s frustrating that some priests really aren’t interested in teaching the Catholic faith, but I have come to realize that this is the state of our parish, and pray for the day our Bishop makes a reassignment. Not sure when that day will come…our pastor is very popular and our Bishop doesn’t like to rock the boat, even though he is fully aware of our Catholic identity problems. Priests that make people feel good and let them do and believe what they want for the most part usually are.
It’s very sad.

 

[fdesales]

Given the mention of “ecumenism” in the original response, I wonder if your pastor was anticipating that this was going to be some kind of “confrontation training”? Maybe if the opportunity arises (and given the growth you’re experiencing, it might ) you could pitch the idea of a “Catholic Basics” class? Emphasize that the idea is to strengthen parishoners in the basics of their faith (knowing full well that the stronger they are in the basics, the better defenders they will be).

Good advice.

By calling something an “apologetics class”, by nature, you are training someone to argue the faith, and too often, this becomes confrontational. It is WAY to easy to argue without charity. It is much better to teach apologetics by teaching the faith, “Catholic Basics”. Of course, the subject material should be on items that would be useful in defending the faith.

What becomes useful is not so much what you will use in an argument, though, but how it will address one’s own spirituality. For example, give a class on WHY the Trinity is so important. The catechism calls it the most important tenet of our faith. WHY??? How many Catholics KNOW??? How many Protestants even recognize that the Trinity is so important???

Because God is a communion of Persons that desires to share of Himself, not only WITH Himself, but WITH His Creation. What an amazing thing to know - WHY God created us, why God became man, why God died for our sake - to call us into communion with Himself, a community of Persons…

The essence of Christianity becomes more clear when an instructor can bring to the forefront WHY the doctrines of the faith are so important - rather than just useful bits of information.

Regards