My problem with Medjugorje

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Apollos said:
Since your mailbox is full, I’m forced to ask in the thread: Do you have a reference for a Garabandal retraction?
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The Garabandal seers reported that they were told by Blessed Mary druing the apparitions that they would one day retract it. They did not believe her.

But they did retract it. However the Church has not ruled negatively on it - supposedly some of the dates involved for aspects of the apparition (the Great Miracle, the Warning) had been communicated to the Pope and some others.

Rumor has it that those dates have not yet come and gone, so the
Church is waiting on it. During one apparition in the 1960s, seer Conchita was told the date of a future event, and was heard to exclaim, “So far off?”
 
Apollos said:
If God wanted to send out a call for help, do you really think he would do it this way?
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It is not a call for help. It is a (last) call for conversion. Conversion means “a turning back to God”.
 
beehumble said:
Likewise, if they declare it valid and accept it will you be obedient to the Church or will you become like the Gruner’s and Socci’s of the world claiming conspiracies, lies, and coverups by the upper echelons of the Church? So what will you do, I wonder? I know you can just say lets wait and see but you must have an opinion.

I will accept whatever the Church says.

And for believing I will be better off because I:
will be going to Mass
will be going to confession
will be fasting on bread and water,
will be reading a little bit of Sacred Scripture every so often
will be doing acts of mercy as much as possible (deeds, words, and prayers - the three degrees of mercy spelled out by Jesus to St. Faustina - for their “neighbors”).

All of these are requested through Medjugorje.
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They`re requested through the Church, as well, regardless of Medjugorje.
By doing these, I do myself no harm, and also am given added grace which is always a good thing.
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So by heeding the messages I will have put my possible salvation on firmer ground.
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And I will continue to do these no matter what the ruling on Medjugorje.
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So it is nothing less than a win-win for me all the way around! :D:D:thumbsup:
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If you didnt read the article by Fr. Peter Joseph, heres the link again:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7724&CFID=51499710&CFTOKEN=19810954

The last paragraph sums it up.
And as he says earlier: “The Devil knows he cannot mislead devout Catholics with outright heresy, ***but he can appeal to their PIETY and then subtly plant errors within.” ***.(Emphasis added)

The many conversions dont mean much: God can bring good out of evil. i returned to the Sacraments (after 23 years) after reading one of W. Weibles books.
The Devil is prepared to suffer some short term loss in exchange for long term gain.

Two of the fruits of Medjugorje are contempt for the LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY of the current bishop of Mostar-Duvno (and his predecessor) and disobedience. Theres the vilification, as well. Theres no escaping that! Contempt and disobedience!

Saint Pio is a canonised saint, not because of his mystical experiences, but because of his life of heroic virtue, and his OBEDIENCE to his superiors, even when they were wrong.
In the end, he was vindicated. The Medjugorje “visionaries” and their associates have other ideas.

Again: Donal Foleys book is a good read. Hes probably a bit unfair in places, but overall, its a damning indictment of the whole thing. ***PS:*** He points out that the scientific tests werent as scientific as we`ve been led to believe

A number of years back, someone said to me: "You`re going to have to answer to God for rejecting Medjugorje, Garabandal, Fr. Gobbi, Maria Valtorta…"etc etc etc. Baloney! She may have to answer to God for refusing to consider anything critical of those phenomena, and for actively promoting all of it.

You people who believe in Medjugorje or any other suspect “private revelations” seem to forget that were not required to believe in even the approved ones. When a persons orthodoxy is judjed by whether or not he follows Medjugorje, Fr. Gobbi etc, theres something horribly wrong. You refuse to take notice of any negative evidence. Youre determined to go on believing, no matter what.
 
Apollos said:
Funny how you missed my point.
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And yes I can easily see this as being the way He would do it. How do you think He would do it? How do you think He should call back His children who have gone astray during this Great Apostasy?
 
SunnaB16 said:
They`re requested through the Church, as well, regardless of Medjugorje.

If you didnt read the article by Fr. Peter Joseph, heres the link again:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7724&CFID=51499710&CFTOKEN=19810954

The last paragraph sums it up.
And as he says earlier: “The Devil knows he cannot mislead devout Catholics with outright heresy, ***but he can appeal to their PIETY and then subtly plant errors within.” ***.(Emphasis added)

The many conversions dont mean much: God can bring good out of evil. i returned to the Sacraments (after 23 years) after reading one of W. Weibles books.
The Devil is prepared to suffer some short term loss in exchange for long term gain.

Two of the fruits of Medjugorje are contempt for the LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY of the current bishop of Mostar-Duvno (and his predecessor) and disobedience. Theres the vilification, as well. Theres no escaping that! Contempt and disobedience!

Saint Pio is a canonised saint, not because of his mystical experiences, but because of his life of heroic virtue, and his OBEDIENCE to his superiors, even when they were wrong.
In the end, he was vindicated. The Medjugorje “visionaries” and their associates have other ideas.

Again: Donal Foleys book is a good read. Hes probably a bit unfair in places, but overall, its a damning indictment of the whole thing. ***PS:*** He points out that the scientific tests werent as scientific as we`ve been led to believe

A number of years back, someone said to me: "You`re going to have to answer to God for rejecting Medjugorje, Garabandal, Fr. Gobbi, Maria Valtorta…"etc etc etc. Baloney! She may have to answer to God for refusing to consider anything critical of those phenomena, and for actively promoting all of it.

You people who believe in Medjugorje or any other suspect “private revelations” seem to forget that were not required to believe in even the approved ones. When a persons orthodoxy is judjed by whether or not he follows Medjugorje, Fr. Gobbi etc, theres something horribly wrong. You refuse to take notice of any negative evidence. Youre determined to go on believing, no matter what.
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I (one of the ‘you people’) do not forget we are not required to believe in apparitions. **Some people forget they should stop trying to turn others against Medjugorje and worry about their own conversions.
**
Some people forget that it is not their concern whether or not people believe in Medjugorje; it is in the hands of the Church, so they should really mind their own business and stop trying to act like they are the Magesterium, which they do when they tell others to not believe in Medjugorje. Those people are free to their own personal (keyword: personal) opinion about the apparition but they have have no authority to tell others to not believe it, and are acting disobediently by doing so.

I take notice of all evidence, both pro and con. But one must have the ACCURATE evidence, not hearsay which most are listening to. For example, it is oft repeated (did you repeat it above?) that a message said all religions are equal, which is incorrect hearsay that has been spread by those opposed to Medjugorje in an uncharitable manner. The message related that PEOPLE of all religions are loved by God, which is correct Catholic teaching. We are all His children, and He died to save all of us.
I will believe whatever the Church says to believe. *** You seem determined to NOT believe, no matter what. I hope if the Church rules in its favor, you can handle it and don’t start some conspiracy theories ala Fr. Gruner and author Socci.

As for:
The last paragraph sums it up.
And as he says earlier: “The Devil knows he cannot mislead devout Catholics with outright heresy, but he can appeal to their PIETY and then subtly plant errors within.” .(Emphasis added)

The many conversions dont mean much: God can bring good out of evil. i returned to the Sacraments (after 23 years) after reading one of W. Weibles books.
The Devil is prepared to suffer some short term loss in exchange for long term gain.

That nonsense that the devil can take short term losses for long term gains by telling people to avail themselves of the sacraments (which are the main messages of Medjugorje: go to Mass, go to confession etc) is pure baloney. ** It is pure bunk, and unscriptural. **

To argue such a point is to deny the efficacy of the Holy Sacraments given us by God for our salvation - it is tantamount to saying that Satan can tell us to use the sacraments (at Medjugorje, since you say it is Satan who is talking to us there) but they will not save us and he will gain our souls anyway. That sounds like blasphemy or heresy to me. **Jesus (who is GOD and speaks Truth) said Satan cannot go against Satan. **Satan cannot proclaim Jesus is Lord, and tell us to pray and go to confession etc.

It is ironic that it is the same argument the Pharisees used to sling Jesus up on the cross - that His works were from the devil. So you and all who say that are arguing from the side of those Pharisees and are saying the Holy Sacraments given to us by God are useless against Satan. As I said, it is pure BUNK. People saying that need to rethink it, and to get a grip.

God bless you.
 
Could we all just slow down here? The OP just wanted an answer to a difficulty, he just wanted help to make a decision. It is evident that he did not want an argument or a debate. Could we just calm down?

God Bless!
 
beehumble said:
Formal scientific tests have shown the group of seers to be completely normal and having some type of mutual unexplainable experience.
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I’m confused? What does this have to do with one of the seers flinching?..then saying she flinched because Mary Mother was about to drop baby Jesus?
 
First of all…it is a very valid point that the evil one is not stupid enough to encourage people to the Sacraments. I for one have been encouraged to the Sacraments by Medjugorje and there is not a single person who should have the audacitiy to say that is of the evil one. The Sacraments are the means of God’s grace for the salvation of souls, hardly the evil one’s business.

Second of all…Is there someone out there who could shut this stupid thread down? Not only is it upsetting to me personally but it is also obviously to other people as well. Thanks!
 
Forum Rules prohibit the *discussion of messages *from unapproved private revelation and the *promotion *of unapproved private revelation.

Since the OP’s question has been answered, this thread is now Closed.

Thanks,
Klara
 
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